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I can’t help but notice some things so please allow me to make some statements that may or may not be received well — I don’t know how any of you will receive it and while I’ll attempt to maintain decorum and be as politically correct as possible, I’m going to probably still hurt your feelings either way so let’s rip the band-aid right on off, shall we?
Some of you are unrealistic about polygyny. You’re desperate and you’re running full-speed ahead, no-holds-barred toward your future polygynous household — and what you don’t seem to understand, is that what you THINK it’s gonna be, is based on FANTASY and FAIRY-TALES!
It would be great if people would understand themselves BEFORE they get into polygyny, but some of us won’t get it until we’ve actually tried it for ourselves. But you need to do your BEST to understand yourself RIGHT NOW before you move forward.
What kind of person are you? Are you kind? Are you able to balance? Are you patient? Can you be a friend? Are you able to be FAIR?
Everyone needs to ask themselves questions like these and REALLY be honest with yourselves before you move into this.
Do you realize that women are not cardboard cut outs? Do you realize they’re NOT all the same? Do you realize that, if you have one wife already, chances are wife two is NOT going to be like her? And neither is wife three? Are you ready to contend with their different emotions, sensitivities, likes and dislikes? Are you ready to contend with your OWN emotions, sensitivities, likes and dislikes when you find out that this person that you thought was going to be all this is NOT going to be all of what you thought?
Are you able to be fair THROUGH the FACT that, since you’ve been with Wife A for x amount of years, you may find you prefer HER ways and Wife B MAY NOT CONFORM to the same ways that Wife A has? Because UNLESS you taking women directly out of their father’s houses, these women have been adults for a long time and already have “ways” that they are (“I’m just that way; that’s how I am”). Are you able to STILL deal with her FAIRLY and give her her DUE when that happens IN SPITE OF the fact that you NOW realize you prefer Wife A’s ways and that you IGNORANTLY assumed that when you got Wife B and C they would just come in and conform??
First wives, are you able to understand that EVEN if you and sister-woman are like besties when you meet, that you’re gonna get in there and you’re going to find places where you just don’t agree? Are YOU able to be fair if you find out she’s NOT going to be your bestie like you thought, because you get your nails done and she’s not interested in getting her nails done? Are you able to be fair when you find out your differences?
Wives coming in/Potentials — are you able to understand that fact that if you’re joining a family already-in-progress that they are gonna have their ways and their speed? Are you able to understand that they TOO, are NOT cookie cutter cardboard cut outs of happy families? What are you going to do when they disagree with your methods? What are you gonna do, when they disagree with EACH OTHER’s methods? ARE YOU GONNA BE FAIR?
Polygyny is NOT easy, and you’re not gonna just be good at it just because you say you are or you THINK you are. Some of you are single or in currently-monogamous relationships and you ALREADY not dealing fairly with the people you claim to love or have made a commitment to.
… so many of you are DESPERATE and you don’t even know what you’re getting yourselves into. You’re desperately seeking fantasies of Big Love and Brother Polight.
Not to MENTION the FACT that, while in the world and in the COUNTRY there are significantly more viable black women than there are more viable black men, when it comes to black women in America that choose polygyny as their relationship dynamic, there are more families looking to add on a wife than there are women to go around! Men and families come in to these facebook groups and they put up a status “Who wants to be the wife of a righteous Hebrew/Muslim man?” “Women in Colorado, inbox me!” “Are you pro black? Because I’m pro black – let’s get this black love going! Message me!” Even if they go so far as to put an entire bio on them and their current family stats — THAT DOESN’T MEAN WOMEN ARE JUST GOING TO FALL INTO YOUR INBOX! Just because you’re Hebrew and she’s Hebrew does NOT mean she’s meant for you! Just because you’re pro black and she’s pro black does NOT mean she’s supposed to come your way! There are 5 other people — 3 other families and 2 other single men — vying for that woman, JUST LIKE YOU.
So with THAT being the case, you just putting the call out there like that and thinking it’s going to be inviting and received and women just gone be like “Yeeh we wanna join up wit HIM” is not realistic at all.
And this ALSO leads to the FACT that POLYGYNY MAY NOT HAPPEN FOR YOU!! NO MATTER HOW MANY DREAMS YOU HAVE OF NATION-BUILDING, HAVING ALL THESE WOMEN IN YOUR HOUSEHOLD AND ALL THESE BABIES — THAT DOESN’T MEAN YOU’RE GONNA GET IT! It doesn’t matter how GOOD you are, how RIGHT you are, how financially responsible you ARE, it doesn’t MATTER — NONE of it matters because there are multiple men/families purporting to be JUST AS GOOD as you are, all to the SAME WOMAN you are chasing after! And GUESS WHAT?? SHE might not be very good at making decisions in relationships ANYWAY — so IF you are the best choice she may not even SEE you like that. So off SHE goes with someone else.
So with THAT being the case, you just putting the call out there like that and thinking it’s going to be inviting and received and women just gone be like “Yeeh we wanna join up wit HIM” is not realistic at all.
And this ALSO leads to the FACT that POLYGYNY MAY NOT HAPPEN FOR YOU!! NO MATTER HOW MANY DREAMS YOU HAVE OF NATION-BUILDING, HAVING ALL THESE WOMEN IN YOUR HOUSEHOLD AND ALL THESE BABIES — THAT DOESN’T MEAN YOU’RE GONNA GET IT! It doesn’t matter how GOOD you are, how RIGHT you are, how financially responsible you ARE, it doesn’t MATTER — NONE of it matters because there are multiple men/families purporting to be JUST AS GOOD as you are, all to the SAME WOMAN you are chasing after! And GUESS WHAT?? SHE might not be very good at making decisions in relationships ANYWAY — so IF you are the best choice she may not even SEE you like that. So off SHE goes with someone else.
No.
Everything you’re moving toward — everything you’re thinking about when it comes to polygyny — is predicated on fantastical bullshit.
…and I know you guys want the REAL-real — you want to hear from real life polygynous families and what they go through, because you think it will help. but IT MAY NOT. It might not. The human ego is a HUGE thing. Husbands will look at that family and tell themselves “I’m just like HIM”and they’re NOT — women will look at the wives in the family and say “That is SO me!” and they’re NOT — because if you don’t live with those people and see them for more than a few hours in a day you don’t have any idea WHO they are OR what they’re actually like, you only see a portion of who they are, they only tell you about a portion of themselves, their love for each other is too complicated, their arguments are too complicated, their lives are too complicated for you to REALLY “see yourself” in these people.
Sometimes those that have done polygyny or are DOING polygyny can look at what people post in here and we already know who is PROBABLY not cut out for this.
There’s no point in telling you this, because you’re not going to LISTEN, you still want to TRY and when you TRY you will find out the truth of the situation and you’ll understand yourself THEN — the REAL you that you couldn’t see — and you’ll either put your adult drawls on and do your best to be a good person in spite of yourself, or you’ll make all the mistakes I’ve loosely mentioned.
But I hope you understand ONE point I was trying to make — don’t play with people’s lives, don’t play with their hearts and emotions just because YOU don’t know who YOU are. You can’t move a woman in, and THEN find she’s not a good fit and send her on her way. You can’t bring a sister in as your co, THEN feel some type of way when she doesn’t agree with your disciplining methods , and then want her gone. You can’t join a family, and then when you see all the shit they got going on, want to back out.
Do what you can to TRULY know who you are and what you can handle. You’re still not going to know until you get off in there, and really some questions and some things just can’t be answered until you get in the thing and then and ONLY then will you know and understand yourself.
But know I TRIED to warn you and I TRIED to get you to look within…
I think a man, when courting a woman, should prove that he is financially able to provide for her to some extent, if she should warrant that.
I think that should happen in all relationship dynamics. This isn’t being a gold digger — it doesn’t mean she’s asking for riches and big houses and luxury items.
Men are the providers. They provide. They go out, they face the outside world, they do the hard things it takes to bring wealth to the family.
Why is he not supposed to prove that to a woman he’s trying to bring in as a wife? Why should that woman just “trust” that he’s got it all together? Because he MIGHT NOT.
I see men asking “What does she bring in, other than her vagina?”
-_- That certainly belittles what a woman typically brings in.
No one’s going to like what I’m saying on this.
But I’ve said it before.
Wives are luxury items.
Not every man deserves a wife if he can’t take care of one.
Think of wives as luxury items. She’s gonna come in, she’s going to be pretty to you, she’s gonna smell good, she’s gonna be soft, she’s gonna be sweet. You’re going to want her softness and you’re going to want to smell her, you’re going to want her companionship, her sensuality. She’ll clean, she’ll cook, she’ll mother and nurture your children. She’ll nurse all of you when you’re sick.
And yes, she comes with a vagina.
Wives — good ones — are luxury items.
Don’t belittle that position. And don’t think you just deserve one just because you want one. Don’t think she just has to take your word for it that you can provide well for her. SHE DONT KNOW YOU and wont know you until she’s apart of your household, monogamous OR polygynous.
You want her to do her job and prove she can do it? Fine.
But you do your job and prove you can do it, too.
And don’t give me all that “I can cook for myself and nurse myself” Nonsense. Alot of women can change their own flat tires and fix the leak under the sink these days, too.
But it’s SOOOO much nicer when you have a woman that can cook and nurse you; just as it’s soooo much nicer when a woman can depend on a man to fix her flat, change her oil, and get that leak under the sink.
(This is all in the traditional sense of man and woman and their stations — if you’re not into that, ignore me)
Women have a big problem with submission. Alot of the time they don’t want it brought up; they’re immediately defensive off the bat when the subject is broached.
I keep wondering what the big deal is. I know someone likes to walk around the world and call me “ultra-submissive” (which is funny because on one side that’s what she said, while on the other side, she said my husband was just a working bee and I’m ruling him, lol — so which one is it? Then on the OTHER hand she wants to write me and tell me how much she LEARNED from me on how to deal with the husband she has now…Which one is it, exactly? Which one am I? Whatever MOVING ON I just think it’s funny), but I think people’s ideas on what submission is and what it looks like differs depending on the person.
Here’s how I am — I don’t argue with my husband on petty stuff.
If he has a problem with what I have on, I MAY grumble, yes — but I go and I change what I have on. It’s not a big deal, and I have other clothes. I’d rather be attractive to him (if that’s the reason) than him find me unattractive. And to say I don’t CARE about being attractive to him — then who do I care about being attractive to? (Note: It should either be HIM or YOURSELF but of course it should not matter whether or not people outside of your union find you attractive)
So I don’t care to argue about the little stuff.
When it comes to cooking and cleaning — I was a stay at home mom/housewife for 6 years. The house was my domain. I cooked every meal, more or less. Every day, 3 times a day, for 6 years. Meanwhile my husband went out of the house to work. His work has always been physical work (and I LIKE that — I just don’t like pencil-pushers, cubicle guys. ugh), and he always had long days at work.
I never asked him to help me around the house. There was NO WAY I’d ask, unless I was at my wits’ end and was about to be overwhelmed. But majority of the time, I did not ask him to participate in housework in the house. Still, when he came home, he didn’t just take off his work clothes and sit on the couch with a beer, watching sports. No — when he came home, he got on “men’s” housework — mowing lawns, washing cars, cleaning up the back yard, cutting our sons’ hair, fixing leaks, mending holes, building things for the kids, putting together bikes, changing breaks, changing oil on cars — you name it. He would do it. He’d use up all his daylight hours doing these things.
So yeah, there was NO WAY I was going to ask him to lift a FINGER helping me with my duties as a wife.
That all may look “ultra-submissive” to you, but I just find it rude and insensitive to ask a person that’s been working all day to help in that.
I rarely tell him no on anything he wants. Why should I? The man works hard, makes his money — he should be allowed to do with it whatever he likes. He’s not unreasonable in his wants; why can’t I let him do whatever he wants on that? When he wanted a motorcycle, so many of his friends said their wives had ALWAYS said no to that. Family members TOLD me I should put my foot down and tell him no. Why?? For what??? Because he could DIE?? Well — MAYBE, he might have crashed and died, perhaps, but he would have died doing something he’d WANTED to do! It’s not a crime to have a bike, and many people have had bikes their entire lives and have survived it. I had no interest in telling him no on that or anything else.
No, CONVERSELY, he may tell ME no — but I know myself — compared to alot of people I’m VERY reasonable and logical, but SOMETIMES I’m just not reasonable in my wants. And it makes sense to me.
I pretty much do what he wants me to do. Why not? He’s not asking me to do anything evil or wicked. He’s not asking me to rob people, he’s not asking me to leave my kids outside in the cold or let them starve. He’s not telling me to do crack. I married a man whose family’s best interest is at the forefront of everything he does. I married a man who’s track record for what accomplishing what he needed to accomplish to be what and where he wanted to be at life is 100%. My point: I can TRUST him to lead me well. He won’t let me fall. He won’t cause me to hurt or do wrong. I have no idea why I’m supposed to not do what he says. He’s not going to cause me to die from doing what he’s asked me to do.
I really think… women’s lack of submission is ludicrous. All throughout history, whether the beliefsystem was Abrahamic or Eastern and polytheist etc etc, men have been heads of households. I OVERstand the fact that women have often been oppressed throughout the history of the human world, and have been treated as cattle. I get it.
But today, in an age and in a country where women DO have choices as to what they can do and what they can do, they have rights to all levels of education, and all fields of employment — what’s so hard about finding a man you can trust that will allow you to have your careers, if that’s what you want, and allow you to reach your levels of education, if that’s what you want? And let him lead?
If you married a man who won’t let you do what you like about these things (and you yourself are not being unreasonable in wanting whatever it is you want), why did you marry that man?
If you married a man that can’t be trusted to handle the finances properly, why’d you marry him?
If you married a man that can’t be trusted to make smart life decisions that benefit your family WITHOUT your input (and even WITH your input), why’d you marry him?
Why marry a man who has different ideas of his goals or successes than you?
You don’t do that.
When a man is trying is damnedest to lead his household and you keep bucking and saying no for no reasonable cause, it’s you who are the problem, not him. You calling him aggressive or controlling, when he’s simply doing his job as a man who wants inherently to be the head of his household — that’s you being the problem. If he hasn’t told you to do bad things, painful things, evil things, and you just bucking for the sake of bucking… you’re the problem.
He’s being a MAN. A REAL man. And men, at many different levels of class, economics and education, are going to want to head up their households however they see fit.
If you don’t like the way that man heads his household, or the direction he’s trying to go — then dont do it. You’re only going to cause everyone pain because to be honest, that’s not what you want. Find a man that wants what YOU want, and is going where you’d like to go. And be happy.
But men are men and that’s how men are.
…I have tried to write this for a month now. Here it is. (I have so many other drafts that I think are boring)
I already said on my facebook fanpage that the experience of first wives will not be the same as the experience of second wives, and neither of the two will share the same experience as the third wife. Wives coming in after #3 tend to share similar experiences, and the FINAL wife will have her own experience.
In order for Wife-to-wife (W2W) interactions to be positive, all of the wives must understand that they aren’t having the same experience, and they should TRY to put themselves in the other wifes’ shoes and think of the type of behavior THEY would like out of someone in their place.
It’s called empathy. A level of understanding between two people.
Alot of the time that’s where the issues come in. We come into these relationships (and it happens in monogamy all the time!) and we want to continue to be an individual, dwelling in the same time and space as another individual or set of individuals.
So when it comes to benefiting the unit, we are mainly focused on self and what WE are getting from the unit, and not on what others aren’t getting.
First wives have to remember that a new wife coming in is going to need to be able to create her own place in the family. That means you can’t expect them to come in and be EXACTLY how *you’d* planned for them to be. No — you HAVE to make allowances for her to have her own flavor, do things her own way. You have to be flexible to change…because adding someone to a family is a BIG change no matter HOW that person is added.
(Women that can’t do this probably need their own house/space)
The second wife is the first wife to be added to the already-existing unit. She’s like a guinea pig (UNFORTUNATELY and for lack of a better word at this moment, lol). It’s almost guaranteed that MOST mistakes will be made here, by all parties involved. This is the first time there were two wives, this is the first time the husband has had two wives. Often this is the first time the two women have openly “shared” the same man (hate that term), and so the entire thing is very new and very different for everyone involved. This wife has to remember that the existing wife is opening up her family and possibly her home to her. She should show herself to be a friend to the existing wife, by seeing the needs of the existing unit, and helping in whatever capacity she can.
After the second wife, every wife added on after her tends to have it easier (I’m going off of what I HEAR from a NUMBER of polygynous families from ALL walks of life — Islam, Hebrew Israelites, Mormons, pagans, Christians, etc. what I’m saying is almost universal here if people are doing their best to be “good” people, which the AVERAGE person is trying to be).
There ARE times where a family adds on alot of wives in a short time-period. This is a significantly harder situation — the kinks will not have been ironed out, lol, and so all these people are coming in without a solid base to hold on to…
All should understand that insecurities and sometimes even ugly, ugly jealousies may come up. It may all be misunderstandings, but that’s what communication is for.
I’m a strong believer in communicating; all of the relationships that do well have immense communication, truth and honesty. So even when it comes to these W2W issues, it’s fruitful to address it as soon as possible. It is WRONG to let things fester if they are in ANY way going to affect your interactions with each other, or by extension, the unit itself.
Every wife has to understand that other wives are not going to be cardboard cut-outs with no personality and no “ways” to contend with. They aren’t going to be how you are about things and they aren’t going to handle things the way you do. They are flesh and blood human beings, just like you, who, for the most part (– and I say that because there are WICKED people in this world and if you haven’t learned THAT while following this blog I’onno what else to tell you) deserve a peaceful, loving and happy home, where they are allowed to bring their characteristics to the table to blend in and mix with the other family members, to create something beautiful and successful.
This is why the title of that book is SO poignant — ‘We Want for Our Sisters what We Want for Ourselves’.
That’s so very important in polygyny.
If you don’t keep that phrase in the forefront of your mind doing this, problems will rear their ugly heads everywhere.
What is concubinage?
Back in the day my only understanding of concubine was essentially a slave wife.
Many of us have been discussing this type of wife and how she is in our society today and the conclusion (so far) that has been made is that she is a woman that is otherwise not worthy of being a full wife, or not worthy of getting the benefits of a full wife.
She’s perhaps not very smart, perhaps she’s been promiscuous, or not the same belief system, or perhaps she doesn’t do wifely duties very well. Perhaps she wants her independence (like “Strong, Independent, BLACK woman” as the songs always tell her she is) but she still wants this man. Or he still wants her. In any sense, therefore she is not wife material.
That’s not a good state to be in, in my opinion, and really, in the opinion of MANY of the sisters I know.
The sisters I know, they all want to be wives (if they aren’t wives already). One sister is concerned that she will only be in concubine status because she has children from a previous relationship (she is divorced).
But after reading her posts and seeing her intelligence and her heart, many of us existing wives consider her a valuable asset to any family she joins. It’s just that certain brothers that consider themselves righteous are looking down on her because of these things.
She doesn’t want to be a concubine and I don’t know any women that are pro polygyny that want to be concubines.
I know some Hebrew Israelite brothers that sleep with a woman who is not Hebrew, and THEN tell her “You’re my concubine”, thereby devastating her. It’s like a trick they’re pulling. Sleep with her. Then pull this “I own you” type stuff.
NOT cool and doesn’t seem righteous to me.
A righteous man does NOT mistreat his women and does not trick women.
I”m kind of blabbering here.
If a woman is not wife material, simply don’t have sex with her. Make her wife material. Or make her a wife and then work on her but heavens I have yet to meet a woman that’s happy with concubine status.
(Some of these will have biblical references and some will not)
I will begin with the earliest classification.
na’arah – (plural ne’arot): Girl or young woman
baht – (plural bahtot): daughter
betulah – (plural betulot): married/unmarried virgin
almah – (plural alamot): virgin, unmarried, sexually ripening (“pubescent”) woman
isha – (plural nasheem): wife; literally, woman
pilegesh – (plural pilgasheem): concubine (Song of Songs 6:8)
emah – (plural emote): mother
malkah – (plural melakhot): queen (Song of Songs 6:8)
gevirah – noble woman/queen mother
agunah – a woman whose husband’s whereabouts are unknown (an abandoned woman) (Romans 7:2)
noefet – adulteress (na’aph is the act of committing adultery)
zonah – non-virginal harlot/prostitute (Dt. 23: 18-19)
gerushah – divorcee (literally exile/stranger…)
I found these interesting.
The classification betulah and almah as often used interchangably in scripture.
But a zonah cannot be an almah. (duh?) The two cannot be used interchangably.
Someone asked me that. So I decided to answer lol. Only took a sec.
Laila tov!
