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I think a man, when courting a woman, should prove that he is financially able to provide for her to some extent, if she should warrant that.
I think that should happen in all relationship dynamics. This isn’t being a gold digger — it doesn’t mean she’s asking for riches and big houses and luxury items.
Men are the providers. They provide. They go out, they face the outside world, they do the hard things it takes to bring wealth to the family.
Why is he not supposed to prove that to a woman he’s trying to bring in as a wife? Why should that woman just “trust” that he’s got it all together? Because he MIGHT NOT.
I see men asking “What does she bring in, other than her vagina?”
-_- That certainly belittles what a woman typically brings in.
No one’s going to like what I’m saying on this.
But I’ve said it before.
Wives are luxury items.
Not every man deserves a wife if he can’t take care of one.
Think of wives as luxury items. She’s gonna come in, she’s going to be pretty to you, she’s gonna smell good, she’s gonna be soft, she’s gonna be sweet. You’re going to want her softness and you’re going to want to smell her, you’re going to want her companionship, her sensuality. She’ll clean, she’ll cook, she’ll mother and nurture your children. She’ll nurse all of you when you’re sick.
And yes, she comes with a vagina.
Wives — good ones — are luxury items.
Don’t belittle that position. And don’t think you just deserve one just because you want one. Don’t think she just has to take your word for it that you can provide well for her. SHE DONT KNOW YOU and wont know you until she’s apart of your household, monogamous OR polygynous.
You want her to do her job and prove she can do it? Fine.
But you do your job and prove you can do it, too.
And don’t give me all that “I can cook for myself and nurse myself” Nonsense. Alot of women can change their own flat tires and fix the leak under the sink these days, too.
But it’s SOOOO much nicer when you have a woman that can cook and nurse you; just as it’s soooo much nicer when a woman can depend on a man to fix her flat, change her oil, and get that leak under the sink.
(This is all in the traditional sense of man and woman and their stations — if you’re not into that, ignore me)
Sometimes in polygyny you hear of the initial couple having a “fail-safe” of sorts, where, should any feelings change about this lifestyle at some point in the future, they will revert back to their monogamous relationship. The fail-safe is made due to the fact that the couple in question is knowingly getting into uncharted territory, and are unsure as to whether or not they’ll like it once they get in it — so they are attmepting to reserve the right to stop it and revert to monogamy simply based on if polygyny becomes emotionally stressful on them.
Sometimes this reversion happens when the couple is about to add or has added another wife to the family. This fail-safe, when enacted, has the potential to leave the subsequent wives/wives-to-be SOL. It doesn’t hinge on whether or not the subsequent wife has done anything wrong — it hinges on the feelings and desires of the initial COUPLE (which isn’t always based on reason and logic). This fail-safe indicates that the relationship between the husband and the initial wife is the most important, and that the relationships between the husband and any other subsequent wives is less important.
“Couple’s privilege” is something the polygynous world has yet to define. Polyamory/Non-monogamy/open-relationships have already established this as a “thing” that is in existence in some situations.
Let’s look at the definition from “those people” (lol) and convert it to relate to us polygynous folk, shall we?
Because it’s here, already. Whether explicit or implicit — it’s already here and for some of us seeking polygynous relationships, it is an active part of these relationships.
This is the base definition from this blogger “Solopoly.net” — Couple’s Privilege is “The presumption that socially sanctioned pair-bond relationships involving only two people (such as marriage, long-term boyfriend/girlfriend, or other forms of conventional intimate/life partnerships) are inherently more important, “real” and valid than other types of intimate, romantic or sexual relationships.” (http://solopoly.net/2013/02/05/couple-privilege-having-it-doesnt-necessarily-make-you-an-asshole-but-it-can/)
… “couple’s privilege” runs rampant in our “first-generation polygyny” community. Those of us that were not raised around polygyny, but are accepting of it or want it for ourselves, see this exhibited in our circles all the time — women who thought they were wives are kicked out because the first wife as pulled out her couple’s privilege card at some point during the family’s polygynous journey, and the husband has responded and has asked the other wives leave. Or a sister is being courted seriously by the husband in a family, then the husband cuts it off because — no matter how he likes her — the existing wife has pulled out her card, woman-be-damned.
And OFTEN, the existing wife doesn’t feel WRONG, the husband doesn’t check her in her wrongness, and a wife/potential wife is left out there like — what happened, who did it, and why.
Subsequent wives/potentials are expected to UNDERSTAND why this would happen, and are made to feel as if they are in the wrong for feeling hurt and betrayed (OFTEN by a man who’d said he LOVED her…).
The existing wife sometimes uses this privilege as leverage in the selecting of other wives, using it as a tool that allows HER to decide which woman she’s going to “let” into “her” family.
What she’s actually doing is leveraging someone ELSE’S marriage, whereas her own was never done like that — no one was there to successfully change the husband’s mind on the existing wife’s marriage to him, based on “feelings” and “emotions”.
How, then, can the incoming women be sure that this will never happen to them? Can she ask if the couple has this fail-safe in the deck for a J.I.C. (just in case) situation BEFORE she gets in deep with them? And will the couple be HONEST about having such a thing?
Because to have that sort of agreement does not benefit an incoming wife and her security in HER relationship with this man, or her position in the family, AT ALL.
It’s unfair. Subsequent wives/potentials are asked to consider the existing wife’s stance, when the other woman’s/women’s stance needs to be considered as well.
It’s like everyone initially seems kind and good and loving and selfless —
— until the situation gets a little uncomfortable —
— then people find they aren’t so kind.
They are not so selfless.
This should be discussed! Is it EVER a good thing?
a married woman considered in relation to her spouse.
In Hebrew, the word “isha/ishah” means both woman and wife, interchangeably.
(in polygamous societies) a woman who lives with a man but has lower status than his wife or wives.
Pilegesh (Hebrew: פילגש) is a Hebrew term for a concubine with similar social and legal standing to a recognized wife, often for the purpose of producing offspring.
Zonah(Hebrew:זונה) is a Hebrew term for a prostitute. (there is a female AND male pronunciation — FYI)
Often, Hebrew Israelite women and men are in a battle over concubinage. Men are quick to say that a woman’s virginity is a factor as to whether or not she is a wife or a concubine. The women are made to feel shame for any past they may have; it seems that there is no area for repentance and teshuvah in this topic.
Many who are Hebrew Israelites now were not always awake to who they were. They were born and raised Christian or something else. They lived their lives however they saw fit , and then found out they were Hebrew. Then they turned away from their old ways, striving for righteousness.
But often, a woman is told that, if she is not a virgin when she marries, then she is not a wife — she is a concubine.
When you ask what a concubine is, you may receive a variety of answers — a concubine is a slave-wife, a concubine is a woman who is not a virgin, a concubine is a wife without covenant, a concubine is a girlfriend, a concubine is a woman who has children from another relationship, a concubine is a woman that’s not good enough to be a wife but you still want to bed her.
Whatever the case may be, there is scriptural evidence implying some of these. Others are simply personal opinions of the masses often accepted as fact.
Concubine as a slave-wife: Often in scripture we see a slave girl being taken and lain with, and children are made from that woman. A slave has no choice to consent to or decline to do what is their master’s wish — if a man had a slave girl, and he wanted to lay with her, he could and she would become his concubine. If a woman had a slave girl and she wanted her husband to lay with her, he could and she would become his concubine.
Female slaves were given over to any man to whom her master wished to gift her.
Slavery is not legally done today, so this idea is archaic among us, at best.
(A female slave can become a concubine, but being a concubine does NOT mean you are suddenly a slave! We are all to be dutiful servants of our husbands if we observe the Torah or the Quran, but you are NOT a slave. Even queens were servants to their kings.)
Concubine as a non-virgin: You will hear that a woman who is a non-virgin is only able to receive concubine status with her husband, and not full-wife status (thereby conversely saying that virgins get full-wife status). You will hear many reasons why — some will say if a woman had sex with a man and lost her virginity, then she is THAT man’s wife. The reasoning behind this is because to many Israelites, sex equals marriage. They will pull out verses to support this claim. But they are neglecting other verses on the matter — while sex is needed to complete the marriage “ceremony”, you also need an agreement between parties that this is what you will be to each other, and you need witnesses to the agreement. When a man took an unmarried/unbetrothed Daughter of Israel in a field, he had to pay her father the bride price and basically complete the ceremony. If not, he was seen as having defiled her and messed with her status in society. Sex is not ALL you need to do to be considered a wife.
So think about people’s younger sexual conquests — no, sisters, you are not married to those men if there was no agreement with them that that is what you were doing. No, brethren, you are NOT married to those women if there was no agreement with them that that is what you were doing. (and you know that was not the agreement you had with those people — outside of the righteous Hebraic construct, many things occur and sexual promiscuity is had by both genders.)
Let me point out some non-virginal women in scripture that, when married, were described as wives and not concubines (because scripture is very explicit in titles — what’s there is there and what isn’t there can only be speculated on) —
Ruth (Book of Ruth — widowed; she becomes a wife of Boaz in the end)
Abigail (1 Samuel 25 — widowed; becomes a wife of King David)
Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11)
Bathsheba is a particularly interesting case — while being married to Uriah, Bathsheba committed adultery with King David, which is a sinful act, and became pregnant. Then David had Uriah killed so that he could have Bathsheba as his wife. Never was Bathsheba referred to as his concubine. …and scripture was very clear as to who was concubine and who was not.
Concubine as a wife without covenant:The Babylonian Talmud (the Talmud being a Jewish book that doesn’t hold any one rule for or against anything, and is largely a book of debate and opinion) states that a concubine is a wife without covenant: (from Wikipedia:)”the difference between a pilegesh and a full wife was that the latter received a marriage contract (Hebrew:ketubah) and her marriage (nissu’in) was preceded by a formal betrothal (“kiddushin”), which was not the case with the former. According to R. Judah, however, the pilegesh should also receive a marriage contract, but without including a clause specifying a divorce settlement. (this final line I can agree with — I believe people should understand the nature of their relationship and that things should be clear and concise to the point that it could be written out and both parties would be in agreement on what’s written on that paper)
Concubine as a woman who has children from another relationship: This belief has no foundation in scripture. I can’t find evidence anywhere — a woman who was a widow and had children could be made a full-wife to a man if he wished it.
Kohanim have restrictions on who they can and can’t marry, but not every man is a priest. If you are a Kohan/Cohen, you should be fully aware on your marital restrictions according to Torah, and you should abide by them. A Kohan cannot marry a zonah or a divorced woman (Lev. 21:7) and a kohan gadol (A HIGH priest) cannot marry a widow, a divorced woman, a zonah, a non-Hebrew or converted woman, OR a non-virgin (Lev. 21:13-15). Notice there’s a difference between a priest and a HIGH priest — not every priest is a high priest (the rules in this chapter for the high priest begins at verse 10).
As I mentioned earlier, scripture is very clear on what women were concubines or not. It did not hinge on whether or not that woman was a virgin, it hinges on what that woman’s agreement was with that man. The Most High never frowned on a woman being a wife OR a concubine. And in Hebraic society, being a concubine was NOT seen as a bad thing — she was a wife, she respected and submitted to her man as her husband and her head.
What a woman must do is make sure she understands the relationship she has with her man. I am big on things being clear and concise — I don’t like to be confused as to what we are to each other. I think a woman should request clarity and transparency, and if she agrees with the terms of that relationship, those two are able to do whatever it is they chose per that agreement according to Torah. (of course there are prohibited marriages, but the only one that hinges on a woman’s virginity is that to a Kohan gadol)
KNOW YOUR TORAH IF YOU’RE GOING TO LIVE BY IT, AND YOU WON’T EVER BE DECEIVED.
Boss wife is a term that was coined in the black polygyny groups on Facebook. It is a derogatory term, typically used to describe a woman, who is a wife (tends to be the first wife), who basically is the head of the household. She is the the Maker of the Rules of Engagement with her husband.
Boss wives are domineering, controlling, and overbearing to pretty much everyone around them.
Boss wives tend to need to be in control of the majority of the courting process. A woman may need to go through the boss wife in order to express the wish to be courted by the family. THEY say whether or not a woman can go on a date with the husband. This is HER husband. You are NOT allowed to do ANYTHING with HER husband without her permission.
She may brow-beat him and any of the other wives that come into the situation. You do things HER way. When you marry into the family, and, say, move into the house with them, you move into HER house. You put your things where SHE says. You do things the way SHE wants you to do them.
Her husband allows these things. He doesn’t argue with her about these things. If she says no to a particular woman as a wife, he won’t openly go against her wishes. No. Instead, he will be weak and either go behind her back to try to get what he wants, or, he will sit there and be miserable, rather than taking her to task and confronting her as to why she does not want this or that person to join the family.
Sometimes a boss wife is blocking wives from coming into her family because she REALLY doesn’t want polygyny; she’s only doing it because it’s what HE wants. She’s just pretending to be down for it, and vetoes almost every name that comes up as an option. All reasons may seem reasonable to the husband, no matter how weak or petty they are.
Often a boss wife’s actions and concerns have absolutely nothing to do with her husband and how he feels and what he wants. She is selfish and is only worried about how SHE feels and what SHE wants.
Being a boss wife is frowned upon. If one is able to successfully join her family, they may have a hard row to hoe if they value having their own ways, their own opinions, their own wants and goals. They will need to be just as strong. Some boss wives may respect the fact that another woman has come in, and is strong, and will NOT let her have her way on everything(because I think alot of them are oblivious as to how they come off, and I think they’re unaware that maybe — JUST maybe — their opinions and their ways are not how the other woman wants to do their thing).
Some people like that.
Other boss wives may feel extremely threatened by someone who’s just as strong — and there may be a fight of some sort. She may demand this woman be removed from her kingdom. She may throw a fit, cry and scream. She may physically assault people.
She may pack her things and leave.
Boss wives do better when they are in their own houses, alone and without other wives around. A pseudo-monogamous state is best for them (whether they’ll agree with me or not). Other women should not be subjected to their whims if they don’t want.
Sometimes there’s a little “boss-wife” in every wife — if a woman knows her husband is inept, then maybe it’s good for her to take control of these situations. If she knows he may get hurt somehow in the situation, because truly the other woman is not a good fit. These particular times of “boss-wifery” make sense. What they lack is the selfishness.
So I guess the question is “How much of a boss-wife are you?”
…maybe someone should make a quiz to determine it lol.
(You are 75% boss-wife: Let’s face it, girlie, you’re leaning more toward the bitchy-side than you are toward the sisterly-side! Take a step back and let things relax a little; you’re ALLOWED to not be concerned about whether or not he’s kissed her yet!)
((I crack myself up))
I’ve known polygynists for many years.
Long before Facebook.
I’ve been fascinated with this lifestyle for a long time.
I’ve read their stories and hear their situations — the good and the bad.
We decided we wanted this for ourselves, that — if it could happen, that’d be great.
We officially courted a sister for 8 months — a real, live situation, where people who had personalities, feelings, wants, emotions, goals, etc attempted to create something together.
If you’ve read through my previous entries (and if you’ve known us through the Facebook groups), you already know that it fell through and was ultimately disastrous in nature. It was like Hiroshima, lol — so many emotional explosions and deaths lol (I’m laughing over here; forgive me lol my humor is dark).
So I have a sense of what goes on. I know what happens. My own situation tells me things, along with the knowledge of many other polygynists who had families long before we decided we wanted this.
I hear the stories of first wives, and the stories of second wives, and the stories of subsequent wives…I’ve heard the stories of husbands. I’ve known families where people have DIED (because humans, we die…we all die, eventually) and I’ve seen how they’ve coped with that death. I’ve seen how they’ve dealt with illness, with betrayal, with abuse… with happiness, additions and new lives. I’ve seen so much of it!
For years I think, there — all conversations with the Dreamgyrl led to polygyny (just like for years, there — all conversations led to Hebraic, biblical discussions for me).
I was a zealot.
I have mellowed out.
So, let’s talk about something that I know that happens.
Let’s talk about hiding wives.
Some of us want to do polygyny so bad and we know damned well nobody around us thinks it’s right. We know about the judging and the persecution of polygynous people. Wives are told that they are weak and stupid for being in a relationship like this one. Husbands are called pimps and dogs and philanderers — no matter how righteous, good and moral they and their wives may be…they are called lusty, nasty, freaks…
People have the tendency to treat you differently when they know that you’re sharing a husband/have two wives…
So, what tends to happen is, a family will add on a wife or two — a couple will add a third to their situation — but they, being well aware of what this lifestyle may bring in regards to their social interactions, tend to believe it’s best to not tell people that that other woman — standing in there, staying in that room upstairs, sitting in the car alone, or who answered the phone the other day — is a wife to this family.
What I have heard from women in this type of situation, these hidden wives, is that it’s a depressing place to be. They aren’t referred to as wife when introduced. When family comes in that’s related to the original couple/family unit, that wife is to stay away, or to just be a “friend” at the event — no hand-holding, no lingering glances, no conversation that looks more than friendly. She is put away until it’s safe for her to come out.
It begs the question — are they truly members of the family? Or is she just a toy, being played with?
I’m a first-wife. All I can do is have sympathy for the woman in that situation that lives her life in the shadows and in secret. As a human being I can empathize and say that it’s not fair to her — she’s worthy of being recognized to everyone as this man’s wife, just as the first gets that recognition.
If the fear is the judgement of friends and family — “what will mom say that I’m sharing him?” “What will my mother say, that I’m bringing in another wife?” — my question to you is, when do you STOP living your life to please these other people, and start living life to please YOURSELF? If this is a step you just cannot take (because you know how judgmental your family is, how closed-minded they are and how ignorant they are — but you love them and don’t want them to look bad upon you) — then why do polygyny at all? Why seek this out? You’re bringing in another person just to HURT them, to stifle a relationship! NO relationship does well in secret. A rose in the dark doesn’t grow well — it might grow a little, but its growth will be slow and retarded. It will not reach it’s full potential.
Just don’t do it. If you’re not strong enough to deal with that end of things, then just don’t. Stay in your monogamous relationship and don’t come out of it.
But what if you’re wrong?
What if you were to tell your family and you find that they’re NOT as close-minded and ignorant and judgmental as you thought they would be? Perhaps they have a few choice words for you — but ultimately they still love you? I mean — ask homosexuals, they come out all the time and are often met with a different reaction than what they thought. SOMETIMES friends and family are surprising (“I’ll love you through it”) but you have to give them the CHANCE to surprise you.
Of COURSE you DO have your situations where you find yourself being disowned. My question is — what kind of person wants to stay connected to people who disown them over the people THEY choose to build their lives with?? If those people you’re choosing aren’t abusive, lazy deadbeat or junkies that will cause you to die or end up in jail because of illegal antics — and your family disowns you and hates you for your choice — who wants to be connected to those types, ANYWAY??
I mean at the end of the day, your parents bed who they WANT to bed. They go to sleep with who they want to go to sleep with. They’ve built their lives with who they wanted to build their lives with.
Why can’t YOU have the same freedom?
It’s unfair to you, as an adult.
Polygyny needs to come out of the shadows; not everyone has to do it, not everyone has to like it. But the dynamic needs to be respected and accepted — because these are consenting adults that WANT this lifestyle and it makes them happy.
Don’t hide your wives.
And I’m not talking about anything that endangers your livelihood — if you work for Chik-Fil-A, lol, and your polygynous family is against how they understand scripture to decree, then hey — until you’re done working there, perhaps it’s good not to tell them, lol. But maybe start looking to work for ANOTHER place where they won’t try to make your employment contingent upon your beliefs and your personal life. MAYBE. That’d be a great idea.
Sister Wife is a 2000 documentary that follows the Hebrew Israelites, an African American community that immigrated to Israel and practices polygamy. The men can have up to seven wives. The film follows a couple that’s been married for 21 years as they decide to take on another wife.