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Wikipedia definition: Arranged marriage is a type of marital union where the bride and groom are selected by a third party rather than by each other. It was common worldwide until the 18th century.
In a society where divorces and affairs are common strains in life —
— where people are left to choose their own spouses for themselves, for “love” and “romance” —
— where people fail to do their due diligence, and investigate the person, their family, their pasts, their childhood, etc —
— sometimes we look at other societies where arranged marriages are common, and we wonder — would it be better if we did it that way?
I think arranged marriages should have their place among us.
Now — allow me to post a disclaimer — I don’t believe in forcing anything upon anyone. So no, I don’t believe in forcing people to marry. But I do believe that parents (and elders, and older family members and friends) should be able to look at an individual and assess who would be a good match for that person.
I remember, years ago, watching a documentary on arranged marriages around the world. One couple, in particular, was from a lower caste system in India. They’d been chosen for one another in childhood — maybe about age 7 or 8, and had mostly been kept from knowing or even seeing one another, until the time came for them to be married.
They were able to see each other on the day of their wedding. In the excitement, the documentary asked the young groom how he was feeling about his bride-to-be. He said, in essence “I don’t know her, but I love her. I love her, because she will be my wife. So I love her already.” He had a big smile on his face and hope in his eyes. And from that moment on, I concluded that for many of us, arranged marriage should be allowed.
Some of us don’t like our parents (and some of us, our parents don’t like us). We don’t like their ways and so we don’t want them choosing our mates. And that’s fine. I fully believe a person should be able to decline a marriage offer if they see fit — and no harm should come of it for anyone.
But for me, I mostly trust my parents, and when I was late teens-early twenties, I fully trusted them because for the most part, I was following their path, and I rarely disagreed with anything they were.
My mother had a man chosen for me — a young, black, mainstream Christian pastor. A rising star in the firmament. My mother was always good at knowing what men were best for me, even when I was dating. If she didn’t like a guy, I would drop him quickly.
She was always right about them, it would turn out.
She was always right about them, it would turn out.
Had I not met my husband one day, living thousands of miles away from home, I would have given in and married the man she’d chosen. I would not have been unhappy. But it would not be the life I have now.
I’d be a super-Christian, a model first-wife, a corporate powerhouse, with children who were more than likely excelling at some school somewhere. I’d have a PERM, lol, I’d have some luxury vehicle (A Lexus, Benz, BMW), a tailored church-suit/business-suit wardrobe, heeled shoes that were not too high or too low. My nails would be done every two weeks.
I’d probably be a pastor, myself.
But I met my husband.
And I liked him.
And my parents liked him, too.
So that possible, “okay” reality went out the window, because I happened to stumble upon my husband on my own. Which, in my opinion, was pure Yahweh — pure kismet, pure The Universe doing what IT wants with you, whether or not that was your intent.
And when I compare the two realities, I like this one better. Of course.
My mind is freer and personally I feel “larger” and “more grand” than I would be, had I not chosen to respond to that young man that day in the snow.
To me, today — that other, “okay” life — is REALLY a life of pretentiousness…
To me, today — that other, “okay” life — is REALLY a life of pretentiousness…
I plan to do a level of arranged marriage with our children — I want them to meet people that are similar to them — have similar lifestyles and backgrounds, hopefully from happily married households where the children see both husband and wife/wives, father and mother/mothers and how they relate to each other. I want them to meet young people from families that don’t eat pork, or don’t eat meat.
I plan to mold them into good mates, and to guide them on how to choose a good mate (because, as I said, the final choice will be up to them).
wife
/wīf/
noun
noun: wife; plural noun: wives
-
a married woman considered in relation to her spouse.
In Hebrew, the word “isha/ishah” means both woman and wife, interchangeably.
con·cu·bine
/ˈkäNGkyəˌbīn/
noun
historical
noun: concubine; plural noun: concubines
-
(in polygamous societies) a woman who lives with a man but has lower status than his wife or wives.
Pilegesh (Hebrew: פילגש) is a Hebrew term for a concubine with similar social and legal standing to a recognized wife, often for the purpose of producing offspring.
Zonah(Hebrew:זונה) is a Hebrew term for a prostitute. (there is a female AND male pronunciation — FYI)
Often, Hebrew Israelite women and men are in a battle over concubinage. Men are quick to say that a woman’s virginity is a factor as to whether or not she is a wife or a concubine. The women are made to feel shame for any past they may have; it seems that there is no area for repentance and teshuvah in this topic.
Many who are Hebrew Israelites now were not always awake to who they were. They were born and raised Christian or something else. They lived their lives however they saw fit , and then found out they were Hebrew. Then they turned away from their old ways, striving for righteousness.
But often, a woman is told that, if she is not a virgin when she marries, then she is not a wife — she is a concubine.
When you ask what a concubine is, you may receive a variety of answers — a concubine is a slave-wife, a concubine is a woman who is not a virgin, a concubine is a wife without covenant, a concubine is a girlfriend, a concubine is a woman who has children from another relationship, a concubine is a woman that’s not good enough to be a wife but you still want to bed her.
Whatever the case may be, there is scriptural evidence implying some of these. Others are simply personal opinions of the masses often accepted as fact.
Concubine as a slave-wife: Often in scripture we see a slave girl being taken and lain with, and children are made from that woman. A slave has no choice to consent to or decline to do what is their master’s wish — if a man had a slave girl, and he wanted to lay with her, he could and she would become his concubine. If a woman had a slave girl and she wanted her husband to lay with her, he could and she would become his concubine.
Female slaves were given over to any man to whom her master wished to gift her.
Slavery is not legally done today, so this idea is archaic among us, at best.
(A female slave can become a concubine, but being a concubine does NOT mean you are suddenly a slave! We are all to be dutiful servants of our husbands if we observe the Torah or the Quran, but you are NOT a slave. Even queens were servants to their kings.)
Concubine as a non-virgin: You will hear that a woman who is a non-virgin is only able to receive concubine status with her husband, and not full-wife status (thereby conversely saying that virgins get full-wife status). You will hear many reasons why — some will say if a woman had sex with a man and lost her virginity, then she is THAT man’s wife. The reasoning behind this is because to many Israelites, sex equals marriage. They will pull out verses to support this claim. But they are neglecting other verses on the matter — while sex is needed to complete the marriage “ceremony”, you also need an agreement between parties that this is what you will be to each other, and you need witnesses to the agreement. When a man took an unmarried/unbetrothed Daughter of Israel in a field, he had to pay her father the bride price and basically complete the ceremony. If not, he was seen as having defiled her and messed with her status in society. Sex is not ALL you need to do to be considered a wife.
So think about people’s younger sexual conquests — no, sisters, you are not married to those men if there was no agreement with them that that is what you were doing. No, brethren, you are NOT married to those women if there was no agreement with them that that is what you were doing. (and you know that was not the agreement you had with those people — outside of the righteous Hebraic construct, many things occur and sexual promiscuity is had by both genders.)
Let me point out some non-virginal women in scripture that, when married, were described as wives and not concubines (because scripture is very explicit in titles — what’s there is there and what isn’t there can only be speculated on) —
Ruth (Book of Ruth — widowed; she becomes a wife of Boaz in the end)
Abigail (1 Samuel 25 — widowed; becomes a wife of King David)
Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11)
Bathsheba is a particularly interesting case — while being married to Uriah, Bathsheba committed adultery with King David, which is a sinful act, and became pregnant. Then David had Uriah killed so that he could have Bathsheba as his wife. Never was Bathsheba referred to as his concubine. …and scripture was very clear as to who was concubine and who was not.
Concubine as a wife without covenant:The Babylonian Talmud (the Talmud being a Jewish book that doesn’t hold any one rule for or against anything, and is largely a book of debate and opinion) states that a concubine is a wife without covenant: (from Wikipedia:)”the difference between a pilegesh and a full wife was that the latter received a marriage contract (Hebrew:ketubah) and her marriage (nissu’in) was preceded by a formal betrothal (“kiddushin”), which was not the case with the former. According to R. Judah, however, the pilegesh should also receive a marriage contract, but without including a clause specifying a divorce settlement. (this final line I can agree with — I believe people should understand the nature of their relationship and that things should be clear and concise to the point that it could be written out and both parties would be in agreement on what’s written on that paper)
Concubine as a woman who has children from another relationship: This belief has no foundation in scripture. I can’t find evidence anywhere — a woman who was a widow and had children could be made a full-wife to a man if he wished it.
Kohanim have restrictions on who they can and can’t marry, but not every man is a priest. If you are a Kohan/Cohen, you should be fully aware on your marital restrictions according to Torah, and you should abide by them. A Kohan cannot marry a zonah or a divorced woman (Lev. 21:7) and a kohan gadol (A HIGH priest) cannot marry a widow, a divorced woman, a zonah, a non-Hebrew or converted woman, OR a non-virgin (Lev. 21:13-15). Notice there’s a difference between a priest and a HIGH priest — not every priest is a high priest (the rules in this chapter for the high priest begins at verse 10).
As I mentioned earlier, scripture is very clear on what women were concubines or not. It did not hinge on whether or not that woman was a virgin, it hinges on what that woman’s agreement was with that man. The Most High never frowned on a woman being a wife OR a concubine. And in Hebraic society, being a concubine was NOT seen as a bad thing — she was a wife, she respected and submitted to her man as her husband and her head.
What a woman must do is make sure she understands the relationship she has with her man. I am big on things being clear and concise — I don’t like to be confused as to what we are to each other. I think a woman should request clarity and transparency, and if she agrees with the terms of that relationship, those two are able to do whatever it is they chose per that agreement according to Torah. (of course there are prohibited marriages, but the only one that hinges on a woman’s virginity is that to a Kohan gadol)
KNOW YOUR TORAH IF YOU’RE GOING TO LIVE BY IT, AND YOU WON’T EVER BE DECEIVED.
Women have a big problem with submission. Alot of the time they don’t want it brought up; they’re immediately defensive off the bat when the subject is broached.
I keep wondering what the big deal is. I know someone likes to walk around the world and call me “ultra-submissive” (which is funny because on one side that’s what she said, while on the other side, she said my husband was just a working bee and I’m ruling him, lol — so which one is it? Then on the OTHER hand she wants to write me and tell me how much she LEARNED from me on how to deal with the husband she has now…Which one is it, exactly? Which one am I? Whatever MOVING ON I just think it’s funny), but I think people’s ideas on what submission is and what it looks like differs depending on the person.
Here’s how I am — I don’t argue with my husband on petty stuff.
If he has a problem with what I have on, I MAY grumble, yes — but I go and I change what I have on. It’s not a big deal, and I have other clothes. I’d rather be attractive to him (if that’s the reason) than him find me unattractive. And to say I don’t CARE about being attractive to him — then who do I care about being attractive to? (Note: It should either be HIM or YOURSELF but of course it should not matter whether or not people outside of your union find you attractive)
So I don’t care to argue about the little stuff.
When it comes to cooking and cleaning — I was a stay at home mom/housewife for 6 years. The house was my domain. I cooked every meal, more or less. Every day, 3 times a day, for 6 years. Meanwhile my husband went out of the house to work. His work has always been physical work (and I LIKE that — I just don’t like pencil-pushers, cubicle guys. ugh), and he always had long days at work.
I never asked him to help me around the house. There was NO WAY I’d ask, unless I was at my wits’ end and was about to be overwhelmed. But majority of the time, I did not ask him to participate in housework in the house. Still, when he came home, he didn’t just take off his work clothes and sit on the couch with a beer, watching sports. No — when he came home, he got on “men’s” housework — mowing lawns, washing cars, cleaning up the back yard, cutting our sons’ hair, fixing leaks, mending holes, building things for the kids, putting together bikes, changing breaks, changing oil on cars — you name it. He would do it. He’d use up all his daylight hours doing these things.
So yeah, there was NO WAY I was going to ask him to lift a FINGER helping me with my duties as a wife.
That all may look “ultra-submissive” to you, but I just find it rude and insensitive to ask a person that’s been working all day to help in that.
I rarely tell him no on anything he wants. Why should I? The man works hard, makes his money — he should be allowed to do with it whatever he likes. He’s not unreasonable in his wants; why can’t I let him do whatever he wants on that? When he wanted a motorcycle, so many of his friends said their wives had ALWAYS said no to that. Family members TOLD me I should put my foot down and tell him no. Why?? For what??? Because he could DIE?? Well — MAYBE, he might have crashed and died, perhaps, but he would have died doing something he’d WANTED to do! It’s not a crime to have a bike, and many people have had bikes their entire lives and have survived it. I had no interest in telling him no on that or anything else.
No, CONVERSELY, he may tell ME no — but I know myself — compared to alot of people I’m VERY reasonable and logical, but SOMETIMES I’m just not reasonable in my wants. And it makes sense to me.
I pretty much do what he wants me to do. Why not? He’s not asking me to do anything evil or wicked. He’s not asking me to rob people, he’s not asking me to leave my kids outside in the cold or let them starve. He’s not telling me to do crack. I married a man whose family’s best interest is at the forefront of everything he does. I married a man who’s track record for what accomplishing what he needed to accomplish to be what and where he wanted to be at life is 100%. My point: I can TRUST him to lead me well. He won’t let me fall. He won’t cause me to hurt or do wrong. I have no idea why I’m supposed to not do what he says. He’s not going to cause me to die from doing what he’s asked me to do.
I really think… women’s lack of submission is ludicrous. All throughout history, whether the beliefsystem was Abrahamic or Eastern and polytheist etc etc, men have been heads of households. I OVERstand the fact that women have often been oppressed throughout the history of the human world, and have been treated as cattle. I get it.
But today, in an age and in a country where women DO have choices as to what they can do and what they can do, they have rights to all levels of education, and all fields of employment — what’s so hard about finding a man you can trust that will allow you to have your careers, if that’s what you want, and allow you to reach your levels of education, if that’s what you want? And let him lead?
If you married a man who won’t let you do what you like about these things (and you yourself are not being unreasonable in wanting whatever it is you want), why did you marry that man?
If you married a man that can’t be trusted to handle the finances properly, why’d you marry him?
If you married a man that can’t be trusted to make smart life decisions that benefit your family WITHOUT your input (and even WITH your input), why’d you marry him?
Why marry a man who has different ideas of his goals or successes than you?
You don’t do that.
When a man is trying is damnedest to lead his household and you keep bucking and saying no for no reasonable cause, it’s you who are the problem, not him. You calling him aggressive or controlling, when he’s simply doing his job as a man who wants inherently to be the head of his household — that’s you being the problem. If he hasn’t told you to do bad things, painful things, evil things, and you just bucking for the sake of bucking… you’re the problem.
He’s being a MAN. A REAL man. And men, at many different levels of class, economics and education, are going to want to head up their households however they see fit.
If you don’t like the way that man heads his household, or the direction he’s trying to go — then dont do it. You’re only going to cause everyone pain because to be honest, that’s not what you want. Find a man that wants what YOU want, and is going where you’d like to go. And be happy.
But men are men and that’s how men are.
…I have tried to write this for a month now. Here it is. (I have so many other drafts that I think are boring)
So I finished Parable of the Talents.
And I have to say that the series didn’t fully move me until the second half of the second book. The first book was interesting to the prepper in me, as well as the second book.
*spoiler alert*
but the fact that her belief system was SUCCESSFUL was just so fulfilling for me!
The book says “…it was no accident that the church and the school were the same. They weren’t just the same building. They were the same institution. If the Earthseed Destiny is to have any meaning beyond a distant mythical paradise, Earthseed must be not only a belief system but a way of life. Children should be raised in it. Adults shouldl be reminded of it often, refocused on it, and urged toward it. Both should understand how their current behavior is or isn’t contributing to the fulfillment of the Destiny. By the time we’re able to send Earthseed children to college, they should be dedicated not only to a course of study, but to the fulfillment of the Destiny. If they are, then any course of study they choose cna become a tool for the fulfillment.”
…I love that so very much.
It’s very true. If you have a system of belief, THIS IS HOW YOU SHOULD HANDLE IT. Prophetic words. Prophetic words! Build your meeting place, make it the school for the children as well! WHY do we send our children off to these schools when we KNOW we don’t agree with the MAJORITY of the stuff going on over there???
So there’s that. I haven’t given the book back to the library yet. We had a situation — my daughter lost her library card so we had to renew it, and they didn’t remove the books from that old card so that they could be re-checked out under the new card.
It’s overdue.
*sigh* ILL RETURN IT.
When I was a child I would NOT have returned it. SMH
My mother sent her DNA in to 23andme.com and it came back and said the following about her:
84.1% Sub-Saharan African (79.7% of that being West African, the rest being Central and South African)
13% European (6.9% Northern European – British or Irish, and 6.3% Southern European, specifically Iberian)
and 2.4% Native American
Of course my sister’s and mine will vary from that slightly because of our father and the plethora of DNA found on his side.
My mother’s people are very dark skinned people, with high cheek bones. When you see pictures of ancestors their high cheek bones are dominant — then we mated with someone else and after that, the cheek bones in the next generation are recessive — but high.
Their hair is kinky, but soft and fine and fragile.
My mother’s DNA compilation says alot about me — it points out why I’m a sickle cell carrier (Sub-Saharan Africa)…and it points to why I’m A- (RH-), as well!
The Iberian people are Basque — which are the INDIGENOUS people of Southern Europe. This covers places like Spain, Italy…and France — our slave master had a FRENCH last name.
Then the 2.4% Native American — we are sure we know WHICH ancestor that is!! He was kidnapped off the reservation at the age of 5 and was sold into slavery in Texas. He lived his life with an accent and, when slavery ended, didn’t go home.
They charged less than $100 for this DNA analysis.
Polygyny made the news — apparently it made our DNA better. Here’s a link to a video
Here is the Washington Post article — http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2014/09/25/the-evidence-of-polygamy-is-in-our-genes/
Boss wife is a term that was coined in the black polygyny groups on Facebook. It is a derogatory term, typically used to describe a woman, who is a wife (tends to be the first wife), who basically is the head of the household. She is the the Maker of the Rules of Engagement with her husband.
Boss wives are domineering, controlling, and overbearing to pretty much everyone around them.
Boss wives tend to need to be in control of the majority of the courting process. A woman may need to go through the boss wife in order to express the wish to be courted by the family. THEY say whether or not a woman can go on a date with the husband. This is HER husband. You are NOT allowed to do ANYTHING with HER husband without her permission.
She may brow-beat him and any of the other wives that come into the situation. You do things HER way. When you marry into the family, and, say, move into the house with them, you move into HER house. You put your things where SHE says. You do things the way SHE wants you to do them.
Her husband allows these things. He doesn’t argue with her about these things. If she says no to a particular woman as a wife, he won’t openly go against her wishes. No. Instead, he will be weak and either go behind her back to try to get what he wants, or, he will sit there and be miserable, rather than taking her to task and confronting her as to why she does not want this or that person to join the family.
Sometimes a boss wife is blocking wives from coming into her family because she REALLY doesn’t want polygyny; she’s only doing it because it’s what HE wants. She’s just pretending to be down for it, and vetoes almost every name that comes up as an option. All reasons may seem reasonable to the husband, no matter how weak or petty they are.
Often a boss wife’s actions and concerns have absolutely nothing to do with her husband and how he feels and what he wants. She is selfish and is only worried about how SHE feels and what SHE wants.
Being a boss wife is frowned upon. If one is able to successfully join her family, they may have a hard row to hoe if they value having their own ways, their own opinions, their own wants and goals. They will need to be just as strong. Some boss wives may respect the fact that another woman has come in, and is strong, and will NOT let her have her way on everything(because I think alot of them are oblivious as to how they come off, and I think they’re unaware that maybe — JUST maybe — their opinions and their ways are not how the other woman wants to do their thing). 
Some people like that.
Other boss wives may feel extremely threatened by someone who’s just as strong — and there may be a fight of some sort. She may demand this woman be removed from her kingdom. She may throw a fit, cry and scream. She may physically assault people.
She may pack her things and leave.
Boss wives do better when they are in their own houses, alone and without other wives around. A pseudo-monogamous state is best for them (whether they’ll agree with me or not). Other women should not be subjected to their whims if they don’t want.
Sometimes there’s a little “boss-wife” in every wife — if a woman knows her husband is inept, then maybe it’s good for her to take control of these situations. If she knows he may get hurt somehow in the situation, because truly the other woman is not a good fit. These particular times of “boss-wifery” make sense. What they lack is the selfishness.
So I guess the question is “How much of a boss-wife are you?”
…maybe someone should make a quiz to determine it lol.
(You are 75% boss-wife: Let’s face it, girlie, you’re leaning more toward the bitchy-side than you are toward the sisterly-side! Take a step back and let things relax a little; you’re ALLOWED to not be concerned about whether or not he’s kissed her yet!)
((I crack myself up))
Going through some old posts written by my husband, and felt they were worthy of being put in the blog.
They were to a much smaller audience, and while it does mention some people by name, if you don’t know their last names, you have no idea who they are, so… hakuna matata.
…at the request of an interested sister…
Enjoy!
DreamGyrl360
The basis for my argument in the discussion that went south-
By now most of you have realized who my wife’s alter ego is. You won’t believe the amount of emails she receives from (mostly) women seeking advice in their disastrous poly relationships. Many (not most) are subsequent wives who are being ill-treated and abused by the 1st..under the guise of “showing respect to those before you”. We’ve seen that too many times. Men, it is absolutely unfair to any woman for you to woo her into a relationship with you, have her expecting the securities of a MAN in her life, and then subject her to the emotional whims of your current wife/wives. No woman wants to be dominated by another woman, just as no man wants to be dominated by another man.
We call this the “boss wife” syndrome, and you won’t believe how prevalent it is in Western polygyny. It happens when the man is dominated by his wife in (at least) the decision-making aspect of their monogamous relationship, whether she does it profoundly or via a stress-inducing series of complaints (nagging). Like all decisions (which she’s already accustomed to making), she dominates the courtship of the potential. This manifests a dynamic in which the 1st profoundly dominates the subsequent wives throughout the relationship. When a woman decides to place herself under the authority and leadership of a man, in order to reap the benefits therein, she is not expecting to nor does she want to deal with his woman on that level. If she did, she would go after a butch.
When discussing “proper structure”, we have to analyze the practical science of it, which is embedded in its definition. Polygyny is not a woman allowing her husband to take on a second wife. It is a man engaging in the social institution of marriage (whether state sanctioned or not) with multiple women. When discussing the “primary” entity in the agreement, we go deeper into the practical science and analyze the predominating element… the most necessary element- THE MAN HAS TO BE CAPABLE OF IT! Therefore it is the man who is primary in the arrangement and he should have the reins all the way through. For harmonious polygyny to work, each woman needs to have a personal relationship with the man, which is independent of the other relationship dynamics in the mix. And it should not be driven by another wife from the back seat. However, because of the conditioning of us (against it, in the west), the catalyst for harmonious polygyny is the ability of the women to get along. But still, a poly man — a REAL poly man — would be able to take care of that.
A healthy transition from monogamy to polygyny begins with the monogamous household being in the right order. That order begins with the man being a man as a man should, and not his wife’s bitch. He has to fully assume the HOH (Head of Household) rank, which is being the ultimate (but not absolute) authority under his roof. If not, the subsequent wives will never be fulfilled in the social purpose of polygyny, or worse – deal with the mess that Lily spoke of earlier, that so many others have had to deal with. Like Donald stated, it is the man’s role to balance and guide. He should know what is best for his family, and if he doesn’t, then he has not fully assumed the HOH rank. And when choosing a subsequent, he should hold the authority of that decision, just as he had with the first. It is his wife, not hers, as Yolanda mentioned earlier. We live in a world where spouses choose each other and this has become one of the cornerstones for spousal relationships in this day and age. To propose otherwise, in order to satisfy the current wife’s selfishness, reeks of feminism.
Every single scenario that was brought up to support the opposing argument was due to a household not being in the right order. Folks have lived so long in Babylon, with their way of thinking perverted with the methods of their conquerors, that their perception of what is “proper structure” and the “right order” has long been twisted. The purpose of polygyny, as it was sanctioned in every society of civilized man, both past and present, was not to allow a wife to have another woman to share wifely duties with. Neither is it to allow a man to have multiple women. It has always been to allow every woman the opportunity to have the securities and comforts which comes from having a responsible man in their life.
I already said on my facebook fanpage that the experience of first wives will not be the same as the experience of second wives, and neither of the two will share the same experience as the third wife. Wives coming in after #3 tend to share similar experiences, and the FINAL wife will have her own experience.
In order for Wife-to-wife (W2W) interactions to be positive, all of the wives must understand that they aren’t having the same experience, and they should TRY to put themselves in the other wifes’ shoes and think of the type of behavior THEY would like out of someone in their place.
It’s called empathy. A level of understanding between two people.
Alot of the time that’s where the issues come in. We come into these relationships (and it happens in monogamy all the time!) and we want to continue to be an individual, dwelling in the same time and space as another individual or set of individuals.
So when it comes to benefiting the unit, we are mainly focused on self and what WE are getting from the unit, and not on what others aren’t getting.
First wives have to remember that a new wife coming in is going to need to be able to create her own place in the family. That means you can’t expect them to come in and be EXACTLY how *you’d* planned for them to be. No — you HAVE to make allowances for her to have her own flavor, do things her own way. You have to be flexible to change…because adding someone to a family is a BIG change no matter HOW that person is added.
(Women that can’t do this probably need their own house/space)
The second wife is the first wife to be added to the already-existing unit. She’s like a guinea pig (UNFORTUNATELY and for lack of a better word at this moment, lol). It’s almost guaranteed that MOST mistakes will be made here, by all parties involved. This is the first time there were two wives, this is the first time the husband has had two wives. Often this is the first time the two women have openly “shared” the same man (hate that term), and so the entire thing is very new and very different for everyone involved. This wife has to remember that the existing wife is opening up her family and possibly her home to her. She should show herself to be a friend to the existing wife, by seeing the needs of the existing unit, and helping in whatever capacity she can.
After the second wife, every wife added on after her tends to have it easier (I’m going off of what I HEAR from a NUMBER of polygynous families from ALL walks of life — Islam, Hebrew Israelites, Mormons, pagans, Christians, etc. what I’m saying is almost universal here if people are doing their best to be “good” people, which the AVERAGE person is trying to be).
There ARE times where a family adds on alot of wives in a short time-period. This is a significantly harder situation — the kinks will not have been ironed out, lol, and so all these people are coming in without a solid base to hold on to…
All should understand that insecurities and sometimes even ugly, ugly jealousies may come up. It may all be misunderstandings, but that’s what communication is for.
I’m a strong believer in communicating; all of the relationships that do well have immense communication, truth and honesty. So even when it comes to these W2W issues, it’s fruitful to address it as soon as possible. It is WRONG to let things fester if they are in ANY way going to affect your interactions with each other, or by extension, the unit itself.
Every wife has to understand that other wives are not going to be cardboard cut-outs with no personality and no “ways” to contend with. They aren’t going to be how you are about things and they aren’t going to handle things the way you do. They are flesh and blood human beings, just like you, who, for the most part (– and I say that because there are WICKED people in this world and if you haven’t learned THAT while following this blog I’onno what else to tell you) deserve a peaceful, loving and happy home, where they are allowed to bring their characteristics to the table to blend in and mix with the other family members, to create something beautiful and successful.
This is why the title of that book is SO poignant — ‘We Want for Our Sisters what We Want for Ourselves’.
That’s so very important in polygyny.
If you don’t keep that phrase in the forefront of your mind doing this, problems will rear their ugly heads everywhere.
I’ve known polygynists for many years.
Long before Facebook.
I’ve been fascinated with this lifestyle for a long time.
I’ve read their stories and hear their situations — the good and the bad.
We decided we wanted this for ourselves, that — if it could happen, that’d be great.
We officially courted a sister for 8 months — a real, live situation, where people who had personalities, feelings, wants, emotions, goals, etc attempted to create something together.
If you’ve read through my previous entries (and if you’ve known us through the Facebook groups), you already know that it fell through and was ultimately disastrous in nature. It was like Hiroshima, lol — so many emotional explosions and deaths lol (I’m laughing over here; forgive me lol my humor is dark).
So I have a sense of what goes on. I know what happens. My own situation tells me things, along with the knowledge of many other polygynists who had families long before we decided we wanted this.
I hear the stories of first wives, and the stories of second wives, and the stories of subsequent wives…I’ve heard the stories of husbands. I’ve known families where people have DIED (because humans, we die…we all die, eventually) and I’ve seen how they’ve coped with that death. I’ve seen how they’ve dealt with illness, with betrayal, with abuse… with happiness, additions and new lives. I’ve seen so much of it!
For years I think, there — all conversations with the Dreamgyrl led to polygyny (just like for years, there — all conversations led to Hebraic, biblical discussions for me).
I was a zealot.
I have mellowed out.
A little.
lol
So, let’s talk about something that I know that happens.
Let’s talk about hiding wives.
Some of us want to do polygyny so bad and we know damned well nobody around us thinks it’s right. We know about the judging and the persecution of polygynous people. Wives are told that they are weak and stupid for being in a relationship like this one. Husbands are called pimps and dogs and philanderers — no matter how righteous, good and moral they and their wives may be…they are called lusty, nasty, freaks…
People have the tendency to treat you differently when they know that you’re sharing a husband/have two wives…
So, what tends to happen is, a family will add on a wife or two — a couple will add a third to their situation — but they, being well aware of what this lifestyle may bring in regards to their social interactions, tend to believe it’s best to not tell people that that other woman — standing in there, staying in that room upstairs, sitting in the car alone, or who answered the phone the other day — is a wife to this family.
What I have heard from women in this type of situation, these hidden wives, is that it’s a depressing place to be. They aren’t referred to as wife when introduced. When family comes in that’s related to the original couple/family unit, that wife is to stay away, or to just be a “friend” at the event — no hand-holding, no lingering glances, no conversation that looks more than friendly. She is put away until it’s safe for her to come out.
It begs the question — are they truly members of the family? Or is she just a toy, being played with?
I’m a first-wife. All I can do is have sympathy for the woman in that situation that lives her life in the shadows and in secret. As a human being I can empathize and say that it’s not fair to her — she’s worthy of being recognized to everyone as this man’s wife, just as the first gets that recognition.
If the fear is the judgement of friends and family — “what will mom say that I’m sharing him?” “What will my mother say, that I’m bringing in another wife?” — my question to you is, when do you STOP living your life to please these other people, and start living life to please YOURSELF? If this is a step you just cannot take (because you know how judgmental your family is, how closed-minded they are and how ignorant they are — but you love them and don’t want them to look bad upon you) — then why do polygyny at all? Why seek this out? You’re bringing in another person just to HURT them, to stifle a relationship! NO relationship does well in secret. A rose in the dark doesn’t grow well — it might grow a little, but its growth will be slow and retarded. It will not reach it’s full potential.
Just don’t do it. If you’re not strong enough to deal with that end of things, then just don’t. Stay in your monogamous relationship and don’t come out of it.
But what if you’re wrong?
What if you were to tell your family and you find that they’re NOT as close-minded and ignorant and judgmental as you thought they would be? Perhaps they have a few choice words for you — but ultimately they still love you? I mean — ask homosexuals, they come out all the time and are often met with a different reaction than what they thought. SOMETIMES friends and family are surprising (“I’ll love you through it”) but you have to give them the CHANCE to surprise you.
Of COURSE you DO have your situations where you find yourself being disowned. My question is — what kind of person wants to stay connected to people who disown them over the people THEY choose to build their lives with?? If those people you’re choosing aren’t abusive, lazy deadbeat or junkies that will cause you to die or end up in jail because of illegal antics — and your family disowns you and hates you for your choice — who wants to be connected to those types, ANYWAY??
I mean at the end of the day, your parents bed who they WANT to bed. They go to sleep with who they want to go to sleep with. They’ve built their lives with who they wanted to build their lives with.
Why can’t YOU have the same freedom?
It’s unfair to you, as an adult.
Polygyny needs to come out of the shadows; not everyone has to do it, not everyone has to like it. But the dynamic needs to be respected and accepted — because these are consenting adults that WANT this lifestyle and it makes them happy.
Don’t hide your wives.
And I’m not talking about anything that endangers your livelihood — if you work for Chik-Fil-A, lol, and your polygynous family is against how they understand scripture to decree, then hey — until you’re done working there, perhaps it’s good not to tell them, lol. But maybe start looking to work for ANOTHER place where they won’t try to make your employment contingent upon your beliefs and your personal life. MAYBE. That’d be a great idea.
If you go to my previous blog entry (…INTEGRITY…) and look in the comments section, you’ll see a response.
The response is from the second sister we ever suited.
We haven’t spoken to her in FIVE YEARS…
We lost contact and yet we were unknowingly in close proximity to her… she has been in and around the poly groups stealthily for a while and has now let it be known that she was privy to things that were going on behind our backs in this last courtship.
This has been a constant occurrence since we terminated the relationship — people coming out of the woodwork and telling us all the things that were going on behind our back the entire time…
That, and people coming out to personally apologize to us, by private message AND phone call, saying they misjudged us in the situation (the count, so far, is 8 — and it wasn’t our defense that exonerated us… they just had to hang around her a little longer…)
Please read what she has to say about us and this last situation —
August 13, 2014 at 11:52 pm
nasi
so I disappear for a while and come back and see videos about me- i deserved it lol. its all good, i just read your posts, sorry this has happened to you and cepha. in all honesty you and cepha are very good people. and i read the below posts and even i know if she said things like that about cepha its not true. during him talking to me he was a complete gentlemen and even offered to defend me from another male from a couple in a group who was harassing me, remember that? years ago. but anyway this girl seems horrible and seems like she lying on you and cepha. I never got the chance to meet you and him but his character in dealing with me wasn’t like that at all. he was funny and sweet and never lost his cool with me. and hes not a predator at all, he never mentioned anything sexual or disrespectful the entire time talking in fact it was i who was inappropriate. if its meant to be for another wife it shall be. this girl seems like she’s bouncing from man to man hopefully she doesn’t get pregnant or spread disease in between. shes a damn jezebel delilah type. sounds like honestly to me she is just a whore,from a broken home raising a broken home, and wouldn’t do right for a decent man trying to help her. yall was probably the only real chance she had at a family , cepha was probably the only real man she knew, and she didn’t know how to deal with a real man. and i do know you and cepha to be good people. don’t worry about her or what she says those people who condone her foolishness will change their minds once she gets in their home and sleeps with their husbands or ruin their lives with her gossip. besides if people believe htings like that without knowing the truth they must be living foul as well. birds of a feather flock together. im in those facebook groups as well and i watch and i say nothing. i only get on facebook once a month. i will say this though i have talked to a particular shady poly man whos in all the groups with his screwed up poly life ( another story for another day ) and i have heard from him things she said about yall but just recently learned who it was, you and cepha. small poly community we have i was shocked. and I know she said it because how else would he know details about her stay with you or yall wanting her to leave or yall sleeping together and she feels neglected cuz he’s in the middle of the bed with a arm around you but not one around her. or her saying yall gang up on her trying to make her a submissive wife so to keep the peace she pretends. or the first night when he had to convince her to sleep with him when he went to visit her and she didn’t want to be intimate, by the way I dont believe that one at all, he never came off that way on me and besides cepha is good looking i would have jumped his damn bones and ohhh i remember that sexy accent. (smile) She said to this guy whom by the way doesn’t like you or your husband and she knows this, this is why she was talking to him, called him every free minute to complain about yall, also another couple with a younger wife and a bunch of kids she kept fucking with her and picking on her so she wouldn’t tell info she thought that wife knew she said about yall. turns out that wife knew nothing. This chick was courting and phone sexing in ur house with this other guy major punk ass man always in women’s drama. Anyway i am rambling i just honestly wish yall the best you are good people. and i dont like what shes saying about yall. anyway see ya in the groups 🙂 side note bet you never would have thought to see me post her or defend yall right? me either. my soul wouldn’t let me rest until i did
Reply
August 13, 2014 at 11:57 pm
nasi
forgot to add congrats on the store
NASI — I am speechless… for SO MANY REASONS, lol.
I thank you. Wholeheartedly. Thank you, sis.
It is a situation we keep turning over and over and over in our heads. And every time, the outcome is NO, we didn’t do anything wrong to this person. This person said she was one thing…and turned out to be a completely different, NEGATIVE and HORRIBLE thing.
NASI — EMAIL ME. I wanna talk to you. lol I have a question.
in·teg·ri·ty
noun: integrity
1.the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness
Let’s talk about honesty, and strong moral principles —
He decided to court her, because during the suiting phase she made herself seem compatible with us — coming from different paths, but moving in the same direction… and then we found out that alot of the stuff she told us about herself, which we based our compatibility on, wasn’t quite true…
When we met this person, she said she homeschooled her kids. We homeschool our kids, so that was awesome. When we met this person, she told us that she’d had polygyny experience.When we met this person she was asked how she made her money. She said she ran a couple of online businesses — which was great because we were in the process of starting our business.
When we met this person, she made herself seem driven, ambitious, and highly motivated.
When we met this person she made herself seem like she’d be a good fit for our family.
What do we find out?? On the homeschooling, we find out that’s not true in the LEAST — what happens is, her grandmother picks up the children in the morning, and takes them to daycare all day long, while she sits at home on her ass smoking weed and entertaining a bunch of people who are basically bums (no jobs and no interest in getting jobs). On her prior polygyny experience — when he asked her about it, turns out she and her youngest child’s father would invite another woman into their bed and she would hang around for a few days after (actually, what we found out was that this person had NEVER had a stable healthy or lasting relationship, in her life!). On how she made her money, we found out that she didn’t make any money from her online store and it was pretty much dead — no, the way she makes her money is to be a drug and prostitute liaison (meaning she sets you up with the people that have what you want and gets a cut from it — she’s the middle-man).
These are not things she told us, and that latter part we didn’t find out until close to the end of courtship!!!
She wanted to make herself seem as compatible as possible!
(EVERYTHING we told you about ourselves during the suiting phase — you came here and saw that it was TRUE! He told you from the JUMP he has a low tolerance for bullshit, and he will NOT let it into his house!)
We SUSPECTED she was talking bad about us behind our backs, because of the little snarky, passive aggressive shit people were saying (and one of them, I kept telling her — if you KNOW SO MUCH, why not say the shit? What the fuck you talking to me for if you not going to say the shit?). But we couldn’t prove it and when asked, she would always say NO. All off in THROUGH the relationship. And see, I told her REPEATEDLY if she had something she wanted to say, if she was upset about something, she should say it to US. Because that’s how we DO — we don’t go outside the family circle to talk bad about someone — we are going to do it RIGHT THERE, THEN AND RIGHT AWAY, to get to the bottom of the issue, so we can move past it. And POSSIBLY, if that means people aren’t compatible, then HEY — that may be the case! No biggie. But NO — she wanted to make herself seem as COMPATIBLE as POSSIBLE.
He was attracted to the person she sold herself AS. And, after realizing that THAT person was FAKE, his constant question was “what am I getting from this?”
The SAME THING she’s doing with ol’boy RIGHT NOW — LYING to him, pretending to convert to his belief! (and very recently, in the group, she even SAID that she doesn’t pray to any god but HERSELF!!! “but don’t tell you-know-who!” THATS THE KIND OF PREDATOR SHE IS — PREYING ON TRUSTING FAMILIES, FAKING COMPATIBILITY SO THAT SHE CAN BE RESCUED FROM HER SORRY SITUATION!!!)…and I heard that you “friends” of hers were HELPING her fabricate her compatibility with him — SHAME ON Y’ALL!! (but y’all all do the same tho — like that other one, who was hiding the fact that she smoked cigarettes from the man she was tryna marry — so why’m I surprised…)
She says that all she’s guilty of is not giving us full disclosure when she moved on. She’s going to spin it to the public in order to make herself seem not too much at fault — but that’s not what happened. She began talking to this dude a few weeks before we even broke up.
DO YOU HEAR THAT SHIT? SHE WAS ALREADY TALKING TO HIM BEFORE WE EVEN BROKE UP!! And she STILL didn’t tell us. How we found out — she let him DISRESPECT my husband, texting him from HER phone! And to EXCUSE it, she said she was “afraid” to tell him.
YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT INTEGRITY, BITCH???!?!?! YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT INTEGRITY??
WTF???
So what happened??
He and I had a conversation. We agreed that, no, she is completely untrustworthy. There’s been this feeling of not being able to trust her for MONTHS. Because of Y&Y, and the things they were saying to us, because of her need to be friends with people who she know damned well don’t even like us (because if you don’t like my husband, then we not friends. If you’re indifferent, that’s ONE thing — but to DISLIKE HIM and to HATE HIM, no, we can’t be friends. HE is A PART of ME. And if another sister ever joins this family, she’d have to feel the SAME WAY. WE are family!).
So we go to her, and we tell her on a phone call that we feel we can’t trust her. What does SHE say? “I haven’t said anything about y’all to anyone…what can I do to gain your trust back?”
-_-
LYING AGAIN. Not even strong enough to say “Well YES, I spoke to them, because this and that and the other” and whatever the fuck you want to talk to them about! Why not SAY IT??
BECAUSE SHE WAS PUTTING UP A FRONT THAT SHE WAS QUITE COMPATIBLE FOR THIS FAMILY.
…and she was talking to him… weeks before we even broke up…
And AGAIN — no booboo, we don’t just “look good on paper” — you already know, that’s why you call us your “prototype family” — because you already know that what we HAVE and what we ARE is something you’d LOVE to have and LOVE to BE in this life. That’s why you were going through so many lengths to be over here with us! YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT IT’S LIKE AT MY HOUSE, YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE WE ARE. You know he’s smart, you know he’s handsome, he works ALL DAY LONG, you know he works on the house ALL THE TIME, you know that when you weren’t messing up he’s gentle, loving, sweet, funny, you know that he don’t play when you’re bullshitting.
You know he won’t whup your ass, though. You know that. You know he won’t hit you. YOU know that if you refuse to listen, if you turn out to lie to the people you trying to build a life with all the time — that he will leave you. That’s what HAPPENED. He broke up with you, because you don’t LISTEN to GOOD counsel. He never told you to do anything bad or wrong — but YOU DON’T LISTEN. You lie. When he makes a decision, you nod your head and fake agreement — YOU WANNA TALK FAKE??!?!?! Let him make a decision I don’t agree with!! I will TELL him, and we will discuss WHY, and he will CONVINCE me (although SOMETIMES, “baby, just trust me” is good enough). I never told you to do anything bad or wrong — but YOU wouldn’t listen to MY advice!!
People wanna talk about playing victim but this bitch STILL constantly calling y’all crying about THIS guy, now. This guy that she said was such a good man, that he was so great and so awesome — and WHO KNOWS?? CAN YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE HER?? PERHAPS HER VIEW OF HIM IS DISTORTED, TOO!! PERHAPS SHE’S THE REASON HE HATED US SO MUCH — JUST LIKE THE REST OF YOU DO! PERHAPS HE *IS* AWESOME!! AND PERHAPS SHE’S PAINTING HIM AS BAD AND EVIL AND SO CALLED BEATING HER AND SHIT. But she still crying to y’all about *him*.
And you allow her to do it. And you believe her — all of you are SO weak and manipulated by crocodile tears… and fake friendships…
UNDERSTAND that you burnt that bridge — MOVE ON ALREADY! STOP CONTACTING ME! STOP HOPING THAT WE’LL MAKE UP AND BE FRIENDS! WHEN EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE GROUP WAS CALLING YOU A POLYANDROUS WHORE, I DEFENDED YOU, INTRODUCED YOU TO MY HUSBAND AT YOUR REQUEST, I OPENED UP MY HOME TO YOU, AND YOU DISRESPECTED IT! And STILL, today, you LIE about it!
…and YOU wanna talk about INTEGRITY…
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