Opening Remarks:
My sisters, I know this is very sensitive and difficult subject for many of us to address and accept. Like many of you, I have struggled over the issues of adultery and polygyny, and the seemingly unfair rules of marriage YAHWAH has created. But, listen to me good, YAH knows what He is doing. He is Elohym. This is His Word, His Rules and His Ways, and how dare we challenge or question the One who gives us life. I say to you, put aside all emotions and opinions and simply receive YAH’s word. Here are few things to keep in mind:
1. We must stop listening to the world’s wisdom, and heed YAH’s laws and wisdom. Ahbeenu will honor our obedience and the steps we take towards righteousness.
2. We must unlearn what the world and Babylon has taught us.
3. We must read exactly what scripture says and understand it as written. We are not to replace Scripture with our opinions and traditions.
4. Learn Torah. Learn what “thus says YAHWAH.” Willful ignorance of YAH’s word is not allowed at this hour.
5. Whether we like it or not, YAH’s word is very specific on certain subjects and often times, the rules are different for men and women, particularly on the issues of marriage, sex, adultery, etc.
Suggested Reading:
We Want For Our Sisters What We Want for Ourselves by Patricia Dixon (The book can be purchased from Amazon.com and other websites or bookstores. The book reveals that before European world domination, polygyny was practiced in over 80% of the world’s cultures. It has also been practiced throughout Western history and is even done so in contemporary American, however in ways that demoralize women and undermine relationships and families. As an alternative to living without men, Dr. Patricia Dixon proposes open and consensual polygyny or co-partnering for African American women and describes the experiences of those who are making it work)
Plural Marriage for Our Times: A Reinvented Option? By Philip L. Kilbride (The book can be purchased from Amazon.com and other websites or bookstores. Kilbride surveys several kinds of polygamy (polygyny, polyandry, group marriage) in various cultures, historical epochs, and religions. He then asks if some versions of plural marriage might be viable in our time. He explores these new varieties of “family” as he finds them in the United States among Mormons, African-Americans, and New Age spiritual communes. His comparisons with European and African practices shed light on the renewed possibility of security and care giving for our dependent generation who are at risk and who are suffering from fractured family relationships around the globe.)
What is Marriage?
Before we begin to talk about adultery, polygyny and fornication in terms of marriage, we must talk look at marriage according to the Torah.
Genesis 2:18 – YAH declares that it is not good for man to be alone and that he would make man a help meet.
Genesis 2:24 – YAHWAH declares that a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. This “one flesh” has spiritual and physical meaning. It means the actual act of intercourse. But, it also means that the two have become one in this entity called marriage. The couple is one spiritually, financially, emotionally, etc. Just as the many members of our single body, work together as one, so do the members of a marriage. As a unit, they are to serve YAHWAH and teach the fruit of their “one flesh” to serve the Most High. How this marriage occurs, can take on many forms as we will see in this study. To begin, we will use the union of Isaac and Rebekah to show the stages of marriage.
Genesis 24 tells the story of Isaac and Rebekah’s marriage. Several things happen in this story that bring us to through the engagement/betrothal, marriage and consummation of the marriage between Isaac and Rebekah
1. Avraham charges his servant with the task of going back to his homeland of Haran to find a wife for his son. Avraham does not want his son to marry one of the Canaanite women, because in Gen. 17 YAH had charged him to be a separate or set apart people. Avraham had no concern whether his servant would find a wife for Isaac or whether the woman would return with his servant. (Gen. 24:7-8)
2. Avraham’s servant made it to Haran and came upon a well, where women often came as a part of their daily chores. There he prayed that YAH would reveal the right woman through the sign he asked for and grant him success. The first woman who offered he and his camels water. before the servant had finished praying, Rebekah was at the well and met all the requirements of the sign. The servant learned that Rebekah was related to Avraham and Isaac, and gave her the nose ring and bracelets. (Gen. 24:11-27) The nose ring is a symbol of marriage proposal similar to the Western culture with rings for the finger. Nose rings were used in Hebrew culture and throughout many other Eastern cultures. (YAH even he gave Ysrael a nose ring. Read Ezekiel 16:9-14.)
3. Avraham’s servant is then taken to Rebekah’s family, where he shares his story and the meeting of Rebekah at the well. It is clear to all that it is YAH’s will for Rebekah to marry Isaac. Her father agrees and the bride price is paid for Rebekah. At this point, Isaac and Rebekah are engaged or betrothed to be married. (Gen. 24:28-59)
4. Avraham’s servant takes Rebekah and her handmaid (Rebekah’s gift from her father) back to Hebron for the marriage. Isaac and Rebekah meet and he takes her as his wife. This is the marriage. (A feast may or may not have occurred.) (Gen. 24:60-67)
5. Isaac not only takes Rebekah as his wife, but he takes her into his tent and loves her. This is the consummation of the marriage. (Gen. 24:67)
From this story, we learn that sex does not constitute marriage. (Later scriptures will also drive home this point.) Prior to meeting each other, Isaac and Rebekah were engage to be married. In Hebrew culture, a woman who is engaged to be married is not to be touched by any other man, or he causes her to commit adultery. Betrothal and marriage are the same. (We will discuss adultery in more detail later.)
Rebekah is taken to Isaac and he takes her as his wife. We can conclude that marriage has some form of betrothal period. The length of this period can vary. Isaac and Rebekah had a short betrothal, but if you look at the story of Jacob and Rachel and Leah in Genesis 29, you will see long periods of betrothal. Betrothal is marked by asking the woman’s family for permission to marry. (In our time, we see the man asking the woman.) Upon agreeing to a marriage contract, the bride price is paid. In this story, Avraham’s servant took 10 camels bearing gifts to give to Isaac’s future wife and her family.
Following the betrothal, we have a marriage and consummation. The marriage may or may not be marked by a wedding feast. Generally, we see a wedding feast of some sort.
Note: There is absolutely no scriptural requirement that you be married before a priest, preacher, or justice of the peace. There is no requirement that you obtain a marriage license. A marriage license is only relevant for Babylon’s purposes (i.e., insurance benefits, property division, etc.). If the two parties are truly under the authority of YAH, then a man after YAH’s heart will provide accordingly for his wife. In the end, we must give an account to YAH and not to the divorce court or this government.
What is Adultery?
Adultery – “voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than his or her lawful spouse.” Webster’s, American Heritage Dictionary, http://www.dictionary.com.
How does Torah define adultery?
Adultery- (Hebrew word is na’aph (Strong’s #5003 – naw-af’ ) a primitive root; to commit adultery; figuratively, to apostatize:–adulterer(-ess), commit(-ing) adultery, woman that breaketh wedlock.
Plainly stated, Torah says that adultery occurs when a woman breaks her marriage or wedding contract. We will look at examples of when this breaking of the marriage contract occurred according to Torah. You will learn that adultery occurs when a man (married or unmarried) has sexual intercourse with a woman who was either married or betrothed to another man. (Note: Keep in mind that there is a physical and spiritual side of adultery and this is seen when you examine Exodus 20:14. Through this verse, one of the commandments, YAH is telling all of Ysrael to not be spiritually unfaithful to Him, as well as not to engage in physical adultery.)
Let’s consider the scriptures:
· Leviticus 20:10 – “And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man’s wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
· Deuteronomy 22:22 – “If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, [both] the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.”
· Deuteronomy 22:23-24 – “If a damsel [that is] a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, [being] in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour’s wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.”
a. Here, we see that a married or unmarried man commits adultery if he has sexual intercourse with another man’s wife (as King David did with Bathsheba, wife of Uriah) and the woman also becomes an adulteress. This is true whether the woman is fully married (and the marriage has been consummated) or is simply betrothed (marriage, but not consummation).
b. These scriptures emphasis a big difference between Western and Hebrew marriages. In the Western culture, we are told that a husband and wife are joined to each other in this contract, but here we see that a woman is joined to a man in an exclusive contract. Hence, the biblical definition of adultery is a “woman who breaks wedlock (or her marriage contract).” This will become clearer as we go along.
Summary – Adultery can only be determined based on the marital status of the woman involved. So, what does this mean? Clearly, a married man does not commit adultery if he has sex with an unmarried woman. (Like it or not sisters, this is what Torah says.) However, he does commit the sin of fornication, which we will discuss next.
What is Fornication?
Fornication – “voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.” Webster’s, American Heritage Dictionary, http://www.dictionary.com.
What is the Biblical definition of fornication:
zanah (Hebrew – Strong’s #2181) – “fornication”, “whoring”, “whore”, “harlot”, “play the harlot”, “whoredom”, and “go a whoring”.
· is used exclusively in the context of whoring, and occurred when a man (married or unmarried) had sexual intercourse with a woman other than his wife.
· A whore or harlot, in Biblical context, is a woman who engages in such sexual intercourse, including one who prostitutes her body for hire.
· Scriptural examples of zanah and prohibitions against certain unlawful sexual behavior are seen in Leviticus 18:
o A man may not uncover the nakedness of his mother (Leviticus 18:7).
o A man may not uncover the nakedness of his father’s wife (Leviticus 18:8).
o A man may not uncover the nakedness of his sister (Leviticus 18:9).
o A man may not uncover the nakedness of his son’s daughter (Leviticus 18:10).
o A man may not uncover the nakedness of his father’s brother’s wife (Leviticus 18:14).
o A man may not uncover the nakedness of his son’s wife (Leviticus 18:15).
o A man may not uncover the nakedness of his brother’s wife (Leviticus 18:16).
o A man may not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter (Leviticus 18:17).
o A man may not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her sister while the woman is still living (Leviticus 18:18).
o A man may not uncover the nakedness of a woman during her menses (Leviticus 18:19).
o A man may not have sexual intercourse with another man’s wife (Leviticus 18:20).
o A man may not have anal sexual intercourse with another male (Leviticus 18:22).
o A man may not have sexual intercourse with an animal (Leviticus 18:23).
o A woman may not have sexual intercourse with an animal (Leviticus 18:23).
· From these scriptures, we see that a man was not to uncover the nakedness of certain people and no animals, under the circumstances mentioned above. If he did, he committed fornication.
porneia (Greek – Strong’s #4202) – “fornication”, “whoring”, “sexual immorality”, “marital unfaithfulness”, “unchastity”, and “impurity”.
· refers to whoring, whether it occurs inside or outside of marriage, but porneia is broad enough to include other forms of sexual immorality, including adultery and incest.
At the heart of it, fornication is any unlawful sexual relation or sexual behavior not condoned by YAHWAH. By its very definition, fornication encompasses adultery, but it also includes all other forms of sexual sins. The scriptures do not make a distinction between married and unmarried people, when addressing the issue of fornication.
· Ezekiel 16:26-32 – Yerushalayim is compared to a married woman, and YAH says she has committed both adultery and fornication.
· Jeremiah 3:1-8 – a married woman “committed whoring (zanah) with many lovers” and was given a certificate of divorce. Thus, fornication can be committed whether you are married or unmarried, and YAH is dealing with our sexual immorality.
· 1 Corinthians 5:1 – fornication (porneia) is used to describe a situation where a man commits incest with his father’s wife. This use of fornication or porneia is a clear example of sexual immorality or unlawful sexual relations.
· Other examples of porneia as sexual immorality, committed by a married or unmarried person, are seen in Acts 15:23-29 and Revelation 17:2-5.
Summary – Fornication is an issue of sexual immorality or engaging in any sexual behavior YAH has declared unlawful, including adultery. Fornication is committed by a man, whether he is married or unmarried, if he has sexual intercourse with an unmarried or unbetrothed woman. So, yes my sisters, YAH does prohibit our husbands from having casual sex with unmarried or unbretrothed women, without the benefit of marriage. However, should our husbands commit fornication with an unmarried or unbretrothed woman, it is fornication and not adultery. But, we wives, if we have sex with any other man, commit adultery. Is one sin greater than the other? Of course not. Does YAH give men permission to sleep around with women without being married to them? Certainly not.
So, now that we know what fornication is and is not, what does Torah say about pre-marital sex?
· Exodus 22:16-17 – And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.
o In this situation, Torah requires a man, who has sex with a virgin woman that is not married or betrothed/engaged, to take her as his wife. He was required to marry her, whether he was already married or not, and pay the bride price.
o The two committed fornication and had sex without the benefit of marriage, but the act of sex or fornication did not automatically make them married.
o If the woman was not a virgin, marriage was not required under the Torah, even though it was an act of fornication.
o Also, if the woman’s father refused to give her in marriage, the man was released from his obligation to marry the woman, but was still required to pay the expected bride-price.
· Deuteronomy 22:28-29 – If a man find a damsel [that is] a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty [shekels] of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
o Just as noted in the scripture from Exodus 22, we see a man has enticed or persuaded a woman to engage in fornication, and the two are found out. He is required to give her father 50 shekels as a bride price and take her as his wife, whether he is married or not.
o It is assumed that the bride’s father’s rights have been violated by what had taken place and that appropriate compensation was necessary to offset the loss of the expected bride-price.
o He is not allowed to put her away or divorce her.
o It is important to understand that the words “lay hold on” do not imply rape. If you read the preceding verses in Deut. 22:25-27 you will see the situation of rape described. A study of the Hebrew words will show that this scripture is dealing with a woman who has been enticed or seduced, and ultimately consents to the sex.
· Deuteronomy 22:13-15; 20-21 – If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth [the tokens of] the damsel’s virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel’s father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her; And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech [against her], saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these [are the tokens of] my daughter’s virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him; And they shall amerce him in an hundred [shekels] of silver, and give [them] unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if this thing be true, [and the tokens of] virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
o In this passage, we see that, if a man marries and then decides that he hates his wife for whatever reason, he can claim she wasn’t a virgin when they were married.
o Her parents were then required to produce the “tokens of her virginity” (i.e., the bloody sheets). When the hymen of a virgin is broken for the first time, blood is generally discharged. The brides’ parents kept the bloody sheets following consummation or the honeymoon night.
o If the parents were able to produce the proof of her virginity, then the Elders of the city chastised the husband and required him to pay woman’s father 100 shekels of silver for the evil he had spoken against the woman and her family.
o However, if the parents were unable to produce the proof of their daughter’s virginity and the elders determine the woman was not a virgin on her wedding night, then the then the woman is to be stoned to death at her father’s doorstep. She brought shame on her father’s house with her whoring and YAH requires that the evil of such unlawful behavior be purged from among Ysrael.
o Again, any act of sex, prior to marriage, is whoring and fornication in the eyes of YAH. It doesn’t matter if you did it one time or 100 times.
o We must cleanse ourselves and our nation of such immoral and unlawful behavior.
What is Polygyny? What does the Torah say about Multiple Marriages?
Polygamy – the practice or condition of having more than one spouse. Polygamy includes polygyny and polyandry. (American Heritage Dictionary, http://www.dictionary.com.)
Polyandry – the practice or condition of having more than one husband at one time. (American Heritage Dictionary, http://www.dictionary.com.)
Polygyny – the practice or condition of having more than one wife at one time. (American Heritage Dictionary, http://www.dictionary.com.)
*Biblically, polygyny is simply when two or more women are married to one man at the same time. Also, biblically speaking, polygyny is the only thing permitted by the scriptures.
First, we must understand and accept that under the Old and New Covenant, polygyny was allowed by YAHWAH. While Western culture looks at polygyny as something evil or immoral, YAH’s word never speaks of polygyny is in this negative manner. YAH never required men, who engaged in polygyny to repent for having multiple wives. There are several examples of polygyny in the scriptures:
· Lamech had two wives, Adah and Zillah (Genesis 4:19)
· Esau had five wives, Judith and Basemath (Genesis 26:34), Mahalath (Genesis 28:9)
· Jacob had four wives, Leah (Genesis 29:23), Rachel (Genesis 29:28), Bilhah (Genesis 30:4), and Zilpah (Genesis 30:9).
· David had several wives, including Micah (1 Samuel 18:27), Ahinoam, Abigail, Maacah, Haggith, Abital and Eglah (2 Samuel 3:2-5). Also, YAH said through the prophet Nathan that He gave Saul’s wives to David (2 Samuel 12:8). David was already married to multiple wives, but YAH gave him more wives. YAH never punished or chastised David for his multiple wives.
· Solomon also had multiple wives. The difference between Solomon and David is that Solomon’s many foreign wives caused him to follow after their gods, and takes his hear off of YAH.
YAHWAH gave laws concerning multiple or plural wives:
· Exodus 21:10-11 – If he take him another [wife]; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money. (Note: Read Exodus 21:7-11 to get the full context)
o In this scripture, YAH deals with a man, who has married his servant. Specifically, YAH say, if that man marries another wife after the servant, he is not to diminish his first wife’s food, clothing or marital rights.
o More importantly, the scripture shows the YAH not only permitted polygyny, but also gave laws governing multiple wives.
· Deuteronomy 25:5 – If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband’s brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of a husband’s brother unto her.
o In this passage, YAH commands a living brother to marry his deceased’s brother’s wife, if the deceased brother dies without living children or a son.
o The marriage status of the living brother is not addressed; therefore, we do not know if this brother is already married or not. He could be single, but he could also be married.
o Regardless, he is required to marry his deceased brother’s wife and in verses 6 it says that any firstborn of this marriage is to inherit and be named after the deceased brother. (The purpose of this law was to keep land in the family and to protect young widows of child-bearing age.)
o Thus, we have a command from YAH allowing a man to engage in polygyny.
· Deuteronomy 21:10-14 – When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the YAHWAH thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, and seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.
o Again, YAHWAH’s commands make no mention as to whether “the man is already married or not.
o A man is simply given permission to marry a woman taken captive after war and instructed on how to deal with her.
o The shaving of her head is a sign that she is no longer under the cover any former authority or person. Thus, she removes her old covering. After 30 days, she becomes the wife of the Ysraelite man and is now under his covering.
o If he consummates the marriage with sex, but then decides he does not want her, he cannot sell her for money, but must free her to go where she desires.
· Deuteronomy 21:15-17 – If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, [both] the beloved and the hated; and [if] the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit [that] which he hath, [that] he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, [which is indeed] the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated [for] the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he [is] the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn [is] his.
o This law does NOT condemn the man who has two wives.
o Rather, it instructs him on how he is to deal with the children born from his two wives.
· Leviticus 18:18 – Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex [her], to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life [time].
o In the scripture, YAH forbids a man to marry his wife’s sister, while his wife is alive.
o YAH could have forbidden polygyny, but He did not.
· Deuteronomy 17:14-20 – When thou art come unto the land which the YAHWAH thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me; 15Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the YAHWAH thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother. 16But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the YAHWAH hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way. 17Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold. 18And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites: 19And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the YAHWAH his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them: 20That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.
o This passage of scripture is YAHWAH’s command to the kings of Ysrael.
o In verse 17, he instructs the king to not “multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away” from YAH. Many use this verse to claim that YAH prohibited kings from having more than one wife; however, they misinterpret the scriptures. While the scripture clearly places a limit on the king, it does not keep him from having more than one wife.
o In the scripture, the king is told that he is not to increase his horses, gold, silver and wives. However, does this mean that the king could not have a few horses, gold, silver and wives? No.
§ David had at least 100 horses (2 Samuel 8:4), and in this, he did not disobey Elohim (1 Kings 15:5).
§ David had silver and gold (2 Samuel 12:30; 24:24) and he did not disobey Elohim.
§ David had at least 8 wives and 10 concubines (2 Samuel 3:14; 15:16; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9) and yet he was not disobedient against Elohim in these things, except when it came to Uriyah and his wife Batsheba.
§ On the other hand, we have Solomon, who clearly disobeyed YAH when it came to multiplying wives unto him, because Solomon’s foreign wives and their foreign gods turned his heart from YAHWAH.
§ Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (1 Kings 11:3). Yet, YAH only judges him for his marriage of foreign women (1 Kings 11:1-2; Deuteronomy 7:1-4) and the idolatry, which resulted from these marriages (1 Kings 11:9-10).
§ Solomon, unlike his father King David, did not follow YAHWAH completely. (I Kings 11:6)
o Conclusion: This law only applies to kings, who were given the authority to lead the people of Ysrael. Kings were to guide the people spiritually and physically. Thus, their hearts could not be led astray after other gods. However, it is very important that we understand that kings could certainly have more than one wife and that this law did not apply to other Ysraelite men. While Ysrael no longer has a physical king, other men should certainly exercise the caution put forth in this command, to insure their hearts are not turned from YAH to idolatry.
Summary: Polygyny was allowed by YAHWAH. Throughout the old and new testament, you will not see the issue of multiple wives condemned by YAH or Yahoshua. We must understand that YAH did not condone fornication, and thus, often required a man to marry a virgin woman after having sex with her, regardless of his marital status at the time.
Another crucial point, is that the permission of the current wife or wives was not required before a man took another wife. However, should all parties be clear in their understanding of YAH’s word and perhaps discuss the matter to encourage peace and oneness in the home? Yes, in my opinion. Yet sisters, we must ask YAHWAH to purge our hearts of Western culture, thinking and selfishness. A second wife does not mean that your husband loves you any less. A second wife does not mean that you now have a slave to do all your housework and take care of the children. A second wife is a sister wife and friend. She is to be a blessed addition to your marriage and home. A multiple wife situation may offer covering to a single woman, who has no other covering or protection.
As a final point, I want to stress that this may not be for everyone’s home and marriage. However, we must gain understanding of YAH’s word on this matter so that we do not judge others whom YAH blesses with this type of family. Additionally sisters, you must gain wisdom and knowledge on this matter in the even that YAH should see fit to bless your husband and home with another wife. Many will leave their home and marriage, because of selfishness and lack of understanding. Some will leave because they think it is illegal. Please seek YAH and His word before you act on your own will.
What about Concubines? (“Concu… what?”)
Concubine – 1) a woman who cohabits with a man to whom she is not legally married, esp. one regarded as socially or sexually subservient; mistress; 2) (among polygamous peoples) a secondary wife, usually of inferior rank. (American Heritage Dictionary, http://www.dictionary.com.)
What is the Biblical definition of concubine?
piylegesh (pee-leh’-ghesh or pilegesh {pee-leh’-ghesh}) (Hebrew – Strong’s #6370) – of uncertain derivation; a concubine; also (masculine) a paramour:–concubine, paramour.
What does Torah say about concubines?
1. First, we must understand that a concubine relationship was not sexually immoral or fornication.
2. Second, a concubine was considered a wife. Yes, she was married to the man. In most cases, a woman is called a concubine in one part of scripture and a wife in another. See the following examples:
o David’s 10 concubines are called his concubines and his wives, by YAHWAH. (2 Samuel 12:11; 16:21-22).
o Keturah is called Abraham’s concubine in 1 Chronicles 1:32, but his wife in Genesis 25:1.
o The Levites concubine mentioned in Judges 19 and 20 “committed whoring against him” (Judges 19:2) and left “her husband” (Judges 19:3). She is called a concubine in Judges 19:1,2,9,24,25,29; 20:4 and 5, yet at the same time, her male partner, the Levite, is called “her husband” in Judges 19:3 and 20:4. In addition, the concubines father is called the “father-in-law” (Judges 19:4,7,9), and the Levite is called the “son-in-law” (Judges 19:5).
3. Third, the difference between a wife and concubine is that the concubine was usually a servant or slave, and not free, like a wife. We see several examples of maidservants or slave women being married in scripture. In such cases, they were considered concubine-wife.
o Bilhah, Jacob’s concubine (Genesis 35:22), whom Rachel gave to him for a wife (Genesis 30:3-4), was a slave.
o Zilpah was also a slave-wife or concubine to Jacob, who was given to him by Leah (Genesis 35:26; 30:9).
4. Fourth, YAHWAH gave specific laws pertaining to the marriage of and sexual relationships with female slaves.
o Exodus 21:7-11 – And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.
o Here we see that slave girls could be betrothed or married by their masters.
o YAH provided that a slave-wife was not to be mistreated, even if the man took another wife.
o A slave wife was to be treated in the same manner as other daughters-in-law.
o However, if she was put away as a wife, or mistreated, then she was free to go, but without any money or inheritance. She was only entitled to her freedom.
o Leviticus 19:20 – And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free.
o This law concerns a maidservant who has been engaged or betrothed (and the marriage has not be consummated) to a man, who has not been able to redeem or buy her from her master.
o If the master lies with the slave woman, she is not to be put to death as free woman would have for committing adultery (Deut. 22:23-24), because she is a slave and had no choice in the matter. The adultery is not accounted to her. However, the master was required to make an offering before YAHWAH for his adultery and fornication.
o Again, neither is put to death, because of the woman’s status.
5. Fifth, some women in scripture considered it a pleasing unto YAHWAH for them to give their servant or slave girl to their husband as a wife. Consider the following example of Leah:
o Genesis 30:9, 17-18 – 9) When Leah saw that she had left bearing, she took Zilpah her maid, and gave her Jacob to wife. 17) And God hearkened unto Leah, and she conceived, and bare Jacob the fifth son. 18) And Leah said, God hath given me my hire, because I have given my maiden to my husband: and she called his name Issachar.
o As we see, Leah had given Zilpah, her maidservant, to Jacob as a wife because she thought she could not bear any more children. (Genesis 30:9)
o Leah continued to pray to YAH for more sons. YAH heard her prayer and she gave birth to a 5th son.
o Leah believed that YAHWAH has blessed her with another son, because he she had unselfishly given Zilpah, her maidservant, to her husband, Jacob.
o What selflessness and strength!! Leah and Rachel both wanted to bear children for their husband and for the nation that they gave their maidservants to their husband as wives.
o While we may not be focused on building the nation of Ysrael, we must consider whether we would be willing to put aside our own selfishness to bless our husbands with children, if YAH had not seen fit to open our womb. Would you humble yourself before YAHWAH and your husband and submit to his decision to take a second wife or suggest a second wife to him?
Summary : Yes, concubines were wives and YAHWAH gave specific laws concerning the care for such wives. They were not mistresses or illicit sexual partners for men.
What about New Testament writings on the subject?
1. Yahoshua coming did not change these laws.
a. Matthew 5:17-18 tells us that Yahoshua did not come to change or destroy the law, but to fulfill it. In the Torah, YAH clearly defined lawful and unlawful sexual behavior. He further gave laws regarding multiple wives and allowed the men of Ysrael to have multiple wives without condemning them for doing so. Yahoshua did not change these laws.
b. Matthew 22:23-30 – The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him, Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. And last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. Yahoshua answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
i. Wow, here it is!! A perfect time for Yahoshua to have condemned polygyny, but He does not.
ii. As we have already discussed, under Torah, if a man died without an heir, his brother was required to marry the dead man’s wife and raise the first son as heir to the dead brother. This was the law, regardless of whether the brother was already married or not.
c. Matthew 25:1-10 – Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut
i. Rather than condemn polygyny in the prior passage in Matthew 22, Yahoshua comes back and uses a polygynous based parable to make a point about being prepared for His return.
ii. Here we have 10 virgins waiting for one bridegroom. Five are ill-prepared and run out of oil to keep their lamps burning. At midnight the call of the bridegroom came, but the five unprepared virgins had no oil in their lamps. They had to leave and get some more oil for their lamps. While the five, unprepared virgins were gone, the bridegroom came and the five prepared virgins were welcomed into the marriage feast to marry the bridegroom.
iii. While the parable is used to make a spiritual point on taking heed and being prepared for Yahoshua’s return, He often used things in the Hebrew culture to make His point. Here, Yahoshua used the idea of polygyny, marriage and wedding feast, as it is something the people understood very well.
iv. Again, He did not condemn the practice of polygyny.
d. Romans 7:2-3 – For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
i. In these verses, Shaul/Paul uses the laws of Torah concerning adultery to teach us a principal concerning the law and Yahoshua. (Read the entire chapter for context.)
ii. If Yahoshua’s coming had changed the laws of adultery, Shaul would have said so. Yet, he uses this law to drive home a point regarding the death and resurrection of Yahoshua and what that should mean to us as believers.
iii. YAH established laws concerning polygyny and adultery and those laws did not change under the New Covenant.
2. The “one wife” verses in Timothy and Titus do not prohibit polygyny.
a. What are the scriptures?
i. I Timothy 3:1-5 – This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
ii. I Timothy 3:12 – Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well
iii. Titus 1:6 – If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
b. How is “one” defined?
i. http://www.dictionary.com – “being or amounting to a single unit or individual or entire thing, item, or object rather than two or more; a single: one woman; one nation; one piece of cake.”
ii. Greek – Strong’s Concordance #3391 (3391. mia mee’-ah irregular feminine of 1520; one or first:–a (certain), + agree, first, one, X other.)
1. Other uses of “mia” in the New Testament, where mia is clearly intended to mean first, as in a number sequence.
a. Matthew 28:1 – (“first” day of the week)
b. John 20:19 – (“first” day of the week)
c. Titus 3:10 – (“first” and second warning)
d. Revelations 6
i. This chapter tells of the opening of the seals. In verse 1, the first seal is opened, but John says he “saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals.”
ii. However, later in Rev. 6, the remaining seals are referred to in number sequence as the second seal, third seal, fourth seal, and so on.
iii. The word used in Rev. 6:1 for one is “mia,” which clearly should be interpreted as “first.”
c. What do these 3 verses mean in light of Torah permitting polygyny?
i. First, these verses are part of the letters and not of the scriptures. The letters were written to give instruction and guidance based upon the scriptures.
ii. The three “one wife” verses only apply to overseer or bishops, deacons and elders. This advice was not given to other men in the congregation. Thus, they cannot be prohibiting polygyny in general.
iii. The verses are similar to YAH’s commands to the kings of Ysrael. YAH wanted those in position of leadership to rule and govern the people in righteousness and not be led astray by other gods.
iv. As I Tim. 3:5 states, having a family (meaning at least one wife and children), suggest that a man has the ability to rule and manage YAH’s people. If he has shepherded his own family, he can shepherd YAH’s family under the authority of the Most High.
v. Interpreting mia as “first,” rather than “one,” more properly fits within the context of Torah, which clearly allowed polygyny.
vi. Therefore, the scriptures are simply advising that the leaders and elders should be married to at least one wife or their “first wife” and not divorced.
3. The “own wife” or “own husband” verse in Corinthians do not prohibit polygyny.
a. I Corinthians 7:2 – Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
i. Let me start by saying that this verse does not give the woman ownership of the husband, and therefore, prevent him from having multiple wives.
ii. The husband is not the property of the wife. Scripture shows us that it is quite the opposite.
iii. This verse has two different words being interpreted as own. The two words are heautou and idios. We will examine them below.
b. How is “own” defined?
i. http://www.dictionary.com – of, pertaining to, or belonging to oneself or itself (usually used after a possessive to emphasize the idea of ownership, interest, or relation conveyed by the possessive); to have or hold as one’s own; possess.
ii. Greek – Strong’s Concordance
1. 1438. heautou, heh-ow-too (incl. all the other cases); from a reflex. pron. otherwise obsol. and the gen. (dat. or acc.) of 846; him- (her-, it-, them-, also [in conjunction with the pers. pron. of the other persons] my-, thy-, our-, your-) self (selves), etc.: -alone, her (own, -self), (he) himself, his (own), itself, one (to) another, our (thine) own (-selves), + that she had, their (own, own selves), (of) them (-selves), they, thyself, you, your (own, own conceits, own selves, -selves).
a. Heautou implies sole or “exclusive” ownership. Plainly stated, when this word is used, it means that one entity solely owns another entity without sharing that ownership with another.
b. Heautou is the word being used when the verse says “let every man have his own [heautou] wife”.
c. Thus, Shaul/Paul is saying let every man have exclusive possession of his wife.
d. Therefore, the husband does not share ownership of his wife with another. Consider this in light of the definition of adultery and the scriptures discussed under that section.
2. 2398. idios, id’-ee-os; of uncert. affin.; pertaining to self, i.e. one’s own; by impl. private or separate:- x his acquaintance, when they were alone, apart, aside, due, his (own, proper, several), home (her, our, thine, your) own (business), private (-ly), proper, severally, their (own).
a. Idios implies share or joint ownership of a particular thing by more than one person.
b. The original Greek word idios is more accurately translated as “proper”, rather than “own” as in most English translations.
c. This word can be understood also when applied to a legal principal called “joint and several” liability. Under this principal two or more parties share ownership interest in one thing. While the two or more people who own this thing are joined in their venture together, they can be sued separately. A person filing suit does not have to sue them jointly, because each of them has separate ownership rights.
d. Thus, idios is the word being used in I Corinth. 7:2 when the verse says “let every woman have her own [idios] husband.”
e. Shaul/Paul, in line with Torah, is saying let every woman have her proper husband or her husband whom she may share jointly with others.
f. The English language does not have one word that distinguishes between exclusive and non-exclusive ownership, therefore, the translators use the word “own.” However, we must seek out the proper meaning of words.
g. Sisters, like it or not, this is a proper interpretation of the word.
c. Examine heautou and idios in other scriptures and you will find that the explanation provided above is a more correct interpretation of the scriptures.
i. Heautou – implying exclusive ownership of the object or thing in question
1. Luke 14:26 – (“His own life”) – a man’s life belongs to him and him alone, it is not shared.
2. Romans 4:19 – (“his own body”) – a man’s body belongs to him and him alone, it is not shared
3. I Corinthians 13:4-5 – (“seek its own”) – love is not selfish is the point of these verses, as selfishness is about seeking or having that which solely belongs to you.
4. Galatians 6:4 – (“his own work”)
ii. Idios – implying shared, common or joint ownership of a thing or object
1. Matthew 9:1 – (“his own city”) – a city does not belong exclusively to just one person, but is shared
2. John 4:44 – (“his own country”) – a country does not belong to just one person, but is shared
3. Acts 2:6 – (“his own language”) – a language does not belong exclusively to one person
4. Romans 14:4 – (“his own master”) – a servant can have only one master, but the master can have many servants. Similarly, a wife can only be led and possessed by one husband, but a husband can lead and possesses many wives.
5. Jude 1:6 – (“their own dwelling”) – a dwelling is shared
Summary: When properly analyzed, the verse in I Corinthians 7:2 is more accurately saying that to prevent whoring, let every man have his own exclusive wives, and every woman her proper husband. As wives, we belong to our husband and him alone. However, our husbands, being in the place of Yahoshua, would say that my wife belongs to me and me alone. Heautou confirms that a wife or woman is not allowed to be owned by more than one husband. Idios confirms that a husband can be owned by more than one wife, who would jointly and severally, share the ownership of their husband. This interpretation is consistent with the laws against fornication.
Additionally, we must remember that neither YAH nor Yahoshua saw fit to make any changes to the laws concerning polygyny, adultery or fornication. Therefore, we must accept that Torah stands on these issues and will remain until the coming of Yahoshua and the new Kingdom, wherein there shall be no marriage.
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May 27, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Natassia
I noticed you left out several important passages that could be applied to the topic of polygyny.
“So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 7:12 NIV)
Jesus replied: ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22:37-40 NIV)
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church—for we are members of his body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. (Ephesians 5:25-33 NIV)
Please explain to me how a man who loves his wife as much as he loves himself would ever consider taking a second wife? What man would want to share his wife with another man?
And when one reads the stories about polygyny in the Old Testament, it is quite obvious that such families experience a lot of strife: Sarah and Hagar, Leah and Rachel, Hannah and Peninnah. Obviously it was not God’s plan for men to have multiple wives…otherwise you wouldn’t have the natural occurrence of jealousy and heartache.
However, what with men constantly fighting with one another and killing one another constantly, I’m sure there were plenty of women around and not enough men for each to have her own. In those societies, a woman was disgraced when she did not have children…and daughters were not given an inheritance.
I am not talking about moral relativism here. What I am suggesting is that a stiff-necked and hard-hearted people (as the Israelites were commonly called throughout the Bible) would not have been too receptive to a law that said: a man may only have one wife. Imagine a large percentage of women never being able to have children because there weren’t enough men to go around!
But God’s plan was never for men to war with one another, thereby leaving too many women and not enough men. Go back to Genesis…the garden of Eden contained ONE man and ONE woman. And remember God’s laws to Noah about spilling the blood of Man?
So,perhaps we should not be so hasty in looking for justification for polygyny, and rather we should focus on the true spirit of God’s Law: Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
May 28, 2009 at 10:26 am
dreamgyrl360
A woman having more than one husband is adultery.
Adultery in the hebrew is a feminine term, meaning it relates to the woman, not the man.
Adultery is spoken against by Yahweh. So, a woman cannot have more than one husband.
The same thing is not said of a man.
Man and women have different laws they live by, according to scripture. For example, a man cannot adhere to the laws relating to a woman’s menstrual cycle or a woman giving birth. A woman cannot adhere to the laws against a man and his “nightly emissions”.
Because we have differen laws, we are often seen as being held at unequal value in scripture. This is not true! Yahweh gave us the rules we should go by and Yahweh gave men the rules they should go by. Different does not connotate equal or unequal. Just as you love one child because that child is most like you in every way, does not mean that you don’t love the other child that is your complete opposite. You still love your “opposite” child, but you relate to him differently than you relate to the other. Your love for both is equal and if you had to choose which one to die (heaven forbid!) you would not be able to choose between the two. Because you love them both. You just love them and relate to them differently.
The Messiah loves the church. The church is singular, HOWEVER, there are many people in the assembly. So he loves each and every one of us. A husband can have more than one wife, and love each and every one of them.
If a man needed help with something in his life, he’d go get help. Another wife is a helper just as the existing wife is a helper. So he gets another wife for her (and for him, yes this is true). He is, therefore, loving her the way he would love himself.
When it comes to the examples of polygyny you use from scripture, there were reasons for the strife in each situation. Hagar was rude to Sarah — had she not been rude, she would have still been there. Sarah didn’t wait on Yah to give them a son as He’d promised; she decided to go her own way. Perhaps if she had waited, there would be no Ishmael from Hagar. Leah and Rachel were rival sisters. Later in Torah we find a man should not marry his wife’s rival sister (Lev. 18:17). Peninnah was mean to Hannah, and was also a rival (1 Sam.1:6-7). What about Moses’ wives, we hear nothing of them fighting. What about Leah vs her maidservant, who was also her sisterwife? Not a word of the fighting there! So perhaps if people are friends, there is no problem when they share a husband!
The Garden of Eden is a portion of the world that is in a perfected state. I say is and not was, because it didn’t cease to exist, it is still there, it is just hidden.
The Garden of Eden also contained two naked vegetarians. Perhaps we should promote nudist beliefs then, if we’re going to use them as our prototypes in everything.
Yahweh’s ORIGINAL plan was for us to live in Eden and to learn from him the proper ways in a safe and loving environment. We broke that; we’re not in that anymore.
Therefore, often in Torah Yahweh led us in battle against people. Or fought for us. And allowed us to kill sometimes “every living thing” in a town.
Why?
Because we’d left Eden a long time before that.
A man and woman, they marry, they become one. He marries another woman, she becomes one with them.
Marriage is also a business. You want the business to do well. The two MAY not be enough for the business, and so, you hire on a third. This is fine. So long as you go along with Torah.
One more thing — you can’t look at a man having more than one wife in the same light as a woman having more than one husbands. One’s a sin and one isn’t. That’s like looking at homosexual sex in the same light as heterosexual sex (both within the terms of “marriage”) — one’s just a plain ole sin and the other is not.
If Yah’s to allow something, who are we to judge? Once again, I’ll say, I’m not saying polygyny is for everyone. It clearly is not because not everyone in scripture is a man with multiple wives. But it is for some, and for those that it is for, they should not feel as if they are sinning; they are not. If they were, The Living God, the Most High One, El Shaddai, Yahweh, the Hebrew God, would have said so. But he never said it. And neither did his Son, who used it as an example in a parable. Why would he use it in a parable if it was a sin? God cannot dwell where there is sin.
I hope I answered you satisfactorily. If not, please feel free to reply and I will be happy to try it again.
Shalom weh boker tov,
Rivka
May 28, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Natassia
A man is only one man. How many pieces of himself do you expect him to be able to share with multiple women?
It seems like you have ignored the true spirit of God’s Law: “Do unto others as you would have them do to you.”
If a man would not want his wife to take a second husband (regardless of whether it was “lawful” or not), how could he think to take a second wife?
You can find this even in the Torah: “Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.” (Leviticus 19:18 NIV)
“What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. This is the whole Torah; all the rest is commentary. Go and learn it.” – Hillel, Talmud, Shabbath 31a
Are women excluded from the definition of “your neighbor”?
“In the modern day, Rabbinic Judaism has essentially outlawed polygamy. Ashkenazi Jews have followed Rabbenu Gershom’s ban since the 11th century. Some Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews (particularly those from Yemen and Iran) discontinued polygamy much more recently, as they emigrated to countries where it was forbidden. The State of Israel has made polygamy illegal, but in practice the law is not enforced, primarily so as not to interfere with Bedouin culture, where polygamy is common. Provisions were instituted to allow for existing polygamous families immigrating from countries where the practice was legal.
“Among Karaite Jews, who do not adhere to Rabbinic interpretations of the Torah, polygamy is almost non-existent today. Like other Jews, Karaites interpret Leviticus 18:18 to mean that a man can only take a second wife if his first wife gives her consent (Keter Torah on Leviticus, pp.96–97) and Karaites interpret Exodus 21:10 to mean that a man can only take a second wife if he is capable of maintaining the same level of marital duties due to his first wife; the marital duties are 1) food, 2) clothing, and 3) sexual gratification. Because of these two biblical limitations and because nearly all countries outlaw it, polygamy is considered highly impractical, and there are only a few known cases of it among Karaite Jews today.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy#Modern_practice
Focusing on the letter of the Law leads only to condemnation. God has given us the ability to rise above it and abide in him with His law written on our hearts.
“The time is coming,” declares the LORD,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them, ”
declares the LORD.
“This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time,” declares the LORD.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the LORD.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
(Jeremiah 31:31-34 NIV)
July 8, 2009 at 9:05 am
dreamgyrl360
Sorry it took me so long to reply.
I wrote up a reply long ago but it got deleted due to server issues and so I didn’t have time to come back to it.
Here I am! 🙂
NOW I have a moment.
**It seems like you have ignored the true spirit of God’s Law: “Do unto others as you would have them do to you.”
If a man would not want his wife to take a second husband (regardless of whether it was “lawful” or not), how could he think to take a second wife?
~~It seems as if you have ignored that one thing is described as a sin, while another thing is not regarded as a sin.
A man would not want his wife to take a second husband because that action is a sin, adultery. In Hebrew, the word for adultery is feminine. Not masculine. Meaning, it pertains to the female sex.
**You can find this even in the Torah: “Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.” (Leviticus 19:18 NIV)
“What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. This is the whole Torah; all the rest is commentary. Go and learn it.” – Hillel, Talmud, Shabbath 31a
Are women excluded from the definition of “your neighbor”?
~~I do not accept the Talmud as Oral Torah. It is a book where rabbis argue the details of Torah. Often no clear conclusion is made by any sides therein. People who take stock in the Talmud choose which train of thought to accept as Torah. I DO read the Talmud; it is discussing the details, which are obviously up to every man to choose unto themselves to do. So I will not accept your argument of “It’s in the Talmud, too” as valid.
As for whether or not women are excluded from “your neighbor” – of course not! However, NO ONE is to sin. NO ONE. So if the man is not sinning then the woman is also not to sin! Sin is hateful, do not do it to your neighbor. If he is following Torah he is not sinning in having another wife.
**“In the modern day, Rabbinic Judaism has essentially outlawed polygamy. Ashkenazi Jews have followed Rabbenu Gershom’s ban since the 11th century. Some Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews (particularly those from Yemen and Iran) discontinued polygamy much more recently, as they emigrated to countries where it was forbidden. The State of Israel has made polygamy illegal, but in practice the law is not enforced, primarily so as not to interfere with Bedouin culture, where polygamy is common. Provisions were instituted to allow for existing polygamous families immigrating from countries where the practice was legal.
~~I don’t ascribe to Rabbinic Judaism. Who gave them the right to change Yah’s Word?
Deut. 4:2 – In order to obey the mitzvot (commandment) of YHWH your Elohim which I am giving you, do not add to what I am saying, and do not subtract from it.
Deut. 12:32 – “Everything I am commanding you, you are to take care to do. Do not add to it or subtract from it.
I am not Jewish. I am Hebrew.
I do not follow man. I follow Yahweh and His Son, Yahshua.
**“Among Karaite Jews, who do not adhere to Rabbinic interpretations of the Torah, polygamy is almost non-existent today.
~~I never, ever say that polygyny is a commandment. What is in Torah, what is in the Bible is how to govern one’s self in such a relationship. It is NOT for everyone so, if people say “no thanks, it’s not for me/us” then so be it. MY thing is, polygyny should be a legal marital option. For people in situations where polygyny would benefit them or is the proper order of things in their household, the government is standing in between them obeying Yah’s laws. I expound on this elsewhere in my video on Who Benefits from Polygyny.
**“Like other Jews, Karaites interpret Leviticus 18:18 to mean that a man can only take a second wife if his first wife gives her consent…”
~~And what’s to say the first wife will not give her consent? I am a first wife; I give my consent! Go to! I NEED help around here, both with him and with my children. I am not a jealous woman; I know WHO I am and I know that NO ONE could ever take my place in anything I do on this earth! I do not have to fear another woman taking him from me. I sense the value in myself and he shows me how valuable I am to him. Plus, aside from value, he loves me. So I’m not going anywhere.
**“Karaites interpret Exodus 21:10 to mean that a man can only take a second wife if he is capable of maintaining the same level of marital duties due to his first wife; the marital duties are 1) food, 2) clothing, and 3) sexual gratification.”
~~As do I! That’s not impossible.
**Focusing on the letter of the Law leads only to condemnation. God has given us the ability to rise above it and abide in him with His law written on our hearts.
~~I am not focusing ONLY on the letter of the law. Even when you focus on the spirit of the law, you must STILL follow the law. The Law is the only thing that defines what sin is. Without knowing the law, you will not know sin. Sin is TRANSGRESSION of the law. When you cease to follow the law, you are transgressing it, therefore you are SINNING. Yahshua says “If you love me, follow my commandments.” What are his commandments? He is the Son of The Living God and His Will is aligned with Yahweh’s Will. So His commandments are also Yah’s commandments! Yah’s Commandments are Law. Law is Torah.
The Biblical term wicked, in the greek is “anomos”. “Nomos” means law. When you use the prefix of “a”, it means without. Therefore, wicked are those without the law.
**No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the LORD.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
~~Man is still teaching his neighbor.
Man is still shouting to his brethren, “Know Yahweh!”
Not everyone knows Him.
So has this time truly come yet? Scripture was written thousands of years ago. And still the things I have mentioned have yet to happen. Perhaps then, this is pointing to a time even further in the future? Perhaps!
July 8, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Natassia
This is not about whether polygyny is “illegal” or not according to the Torah laws.
The law is in place for the unrighteous…not the righteous.
“We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.” (I Timothy 1:8-11 NIV)
If a man was truly treating his wife like he would want to be treated (think about the basic concept of reciprocity), then he would never think to take a second wife with whom he would share his bed and his life.
Why is it that the elders of the church could only have ONE wife in order to be considered “blameless”?
“An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.” (Titus 1:6 NIV)
“Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach…” (I Timothy 3:2 NIV)
“A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.” (I Timothy 3:12 NIV)
The problem with making polygyny legal is that women and men will then not be treated the same in the eyes of the law. In order to have true separation of church and state, religion cannot be incorporated into the government’s legislation. If polygyny is to be made legal, then so must polyandry. That is the definition of secular justice and equality.
And if polygyny were to become legal, how would the courts ensure that the women involved are not being coerced or mistreated in any way? How do you deal with things like social services, insurance, inheritance, alimony, etc.?
There’s a reason divorce causes heartache. (And divorce is not against the laws of the Torah.) There’s a reason adultery causes heartache. And there’s a reason that polygyny frequently causes heartache as well.
Sex is something beautiful and special, and to share one’s husband with another woman–the two of them becoming intimate and having children together–is so incredibly painful for almost any woman who truly loves her husband, and herself.
Let’s not abuse those things which are “technically permitted” in the Torah to the point of neglecting God’s greatest commandments: Do unto others as you would have them do to you, and love your neighbor as yourself.
July 20, 2009 at 9:42 pm
dreamgyrl360
“The husband of but one wife”
The word ‘but’ could also be translated as “at least”.
Meaning the bishop or overseer should not be single.
“Technically permitted”?
So you are, therefore ADMITTING, that scripture permits polygyny.
When there are contracts written up on things, “technical permittance” means that it’s permitted.
If I tell you you must hold a cup, but I don’t tell you you have to hold it in your right hand, you can hold it in your left hand, you can hold it with your feet, you can hold it between your neck and shoulder.
SO LONG AS you’re holding that cup!
You haven’t broken anything I told you to do.
Do unto others as you would have them do to you. Love your neighbor as yourself.
You have yet to show me how a man adding another woman (or two) into his marriage is breaking that. ESPECIALLY if the first wife approves.
My replies take me long because I have other responsibilities other than this blog. 🙂 So I apologize. We are going out of town soon and will be gone for a couple of weeks, at least. If I can, if you reply, I will reply to it when I can.
Yahweh bless and keep you!
July 20, 2009 at 9:44 pm
dreamgyrl360
Titus 1:6 and 1_Timothy 3:2,12 — “One wife” — mia is the Greek word from which the word, one, was translated in those passages. Yet, it can also be translated as first, just as it is, for example, so translated in the phrases, “first day of the week” in Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:1-2, and Acts 20:7.
Furthermore, in 1_Timothy 5:9, a widow’s “one man” is not mia but the Greek word “heis”, meaning the numeral-one, and not meaning the adjective of “first”.
http://www.biblicalpolygamy.com/exegesis/one-wife/
July 20, 2009 at 10:43 pm
Natassia
Now it seems like you are playing petty semantics with this “but” and “at least” nonsense. No matter.
The laws of Moses technically permit polygyny…just as they technically permit divorce. It doesn’t mean that God approves of either. It seems to me like God allows a lesser evil to take place rather than a more serious one. It is better that a man divorce his wife than abuse her, for example. It is better that a man marries two women rather than allows one woman to starve in the streets. However, what is most righteous is if he provides the second woman with a dowery and gives her the chance to be the only wife of another man.
We must be careful not to do what Jesus accused the Pharisees of doing: “…you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition.”
What is the Law? To do unto others as we would have done to ourselves. Would a man want his wife to take a second spouse? Usually not.
You talk about a woman’s approval…as if the approval of a human should supercede that of God’s approval. A man and a woman become one flesh. How can a man become ONE FLESH with multiple women? How can a man be one with one woman just as he is one with another? Did Adam have more than one wife? What about Noah and his sons when God gave them the command to be fruitful and multiply? When God made His promise to Abraham, did he have more than one wife? Polygyny is a human construct; it was not something designed by God. How can we think to attribute something created by humans to be God’s design?
All a man’s ways seem right to him, but the LORD weighs the heart. (Proverbs 21:10)
July 21, 2009 at 8:58 am
dreamgyrl360
That’s not semantics. The word “but” versus the phrase “at least” can almost completely change the understanding of that verse.
So what you’re saying is that Yahweh, who is absolutely ANTI SIN, would ALLOW a sinful act??
But where sin dwells, Yahweh cannot dwell. Right?
So if Yahweh allows something, that something that Yahweh allows cannot therefore be evil.
Yahweh is NOT both good and evil.
Divorce is necessary when there has been a breach in the typical laws of marriage. When a woman sleeps with another man, that is adultery — adultery in Hebrew is “na’aph” and literally means “a woman who breaketh wedlock”. When that happens the option of divorce is there.
Polygyny has no such precepts in scripture. There is nothing that says polygyny HAS to occur and there is no situation in which polygyny MUST NOT occur. You are daring to say that you could possibly know the mind of Yah outside of what is scripturally written. NO ONE, not even the Messiah knows the mind of Yahweh.
When the Messiah told the Pharisees that they break the law for the sake of their traditions, he was still talking about the entire 613 commandments in Torah. The fact that the essence of the entire Torah is “what you would have done to you, do also unto others” does not supercede the fact that each and every law IS the law of God.
Therefore — we still have to follow the laws.
The “traditions” are NOT the laws that Yahweh put forth THROUGH Moses. This is hard to explain because there are things that you are obviously not understanding correctly about scripture. The Jews have something they like to refer to as Oral Torah — the Talmud. The Talmud is a book of Rabbinical writings and really is just a bunch of guys arguing their points. They say you have to wash your hands a certain way before you eat. If you eat and you haven’t washed your hands in that fashion then they say the food that you’re eating has been defiled. THIS IS NO WHERE IN TORAH. Which is why Yahshua the Messiah comes down so hard on them about it.
These are traditions. Remember, Yahweh told the people in Deuteronomy, through Moses, that they are not to ADD or subtract from Torah. The talmud are traditions which have been ADDED to Torah. You cannot do that.
Anything that Yahweh does not discuss (for example he says to remember and observe Shabbat by not working and not doing business on Shabbat. He tells you when Shabbat is but he does not tell you that you HAVE to open it with a prayer or with a song, with the lighting of candles or anything like that.) are detail-oriented and are up to the individuals therein.
As for how a man can become one flesh with more than one woman, allow me to cut and paste from the same site I mentioned in my last post (so as to save my time and energy) —
“one flesh. Genesis 2:24, referenced in Matthew 19:5,6, Mark 10:8, 1_Corinthians 6:16, Ephesians 5:31. A man is “one flesh” with EACH woman with whom he copulates, whether in marriage (wife) or in fornication (harlot). When a married man, who is therefore already “one flesh” with his wife, copulates with another woman, that does not then negate his being “one flesh” with the wife. This is evident by the fact that 1_Corinthians 6:16 reveals that a man can be “one flesh” even with an harlot. As even a married man, therefore, can become “one flesh” with an harlot, that proves that a married man can indeed be “one flesh” with more than one woman, without negating his being “one flesh” with his wife. As that is so even with a married man with an harlot, it is thus just as equally true regarding a man being “one flesh” with more than one wife. For further proof, the very next verse provides the context of the plural-to-one aspect, i.e., 1_Corinthians 6:17: “But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.” As EACH Christian is joined as “one spirit” with the Lord, that then demonstrates the context of the plural-to-one aspect. Namely, as EACH Christian is joined as “one spirit” with the Lord, so too may EACH woman be joined as “one flesh” with one man. Lastly, when the Lord Jesus, in Matthew 19:5,6 and Mark 10:8, was re-quoting that original “one flesh” verse of Genesis 2:24, He was only dealing with the issue of divorce, saying, “What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.” (Matthew 19:6c-d.) That was opposing divorce of God-joined marriages, of what God Himself had joined together as “one flesh”. For context, it is exegetically important to note that the “one flesh” verse itself of Genesis 2:24, which the Lord Jesus was re-quoting, was written by Moses. And Moses married (was “one flesh” with) two wives: Zipporah (Exodus 2:16-21 and 18:1-6) and the Ethiopian woman (Numbers 12:1). The term, “one flesh”, could not otherwise allegedly mean that a man could not be “one flesh” with more than one woman because three things did indeed happen. 1) Moses did marry two wives. 2) Moses did author such other verses as Exodus 21:10 and Deuteronomy 21:15. 3) Jesus Christ did not speak against Moses’ being “one flesh” with two wives. Hence, the Scriptures reveal that Jesus and Moses knew what “one flesh” meant when Moses authored Genesis 2:24: a man may be “one flesh” with more than one woman. ”
So, in essence — biblical math is 1+1=1. So then 1+1+1 must also equal 1. And 1+1+1+1=1 as well and it can go on and on, lol.
Adam didn’t have more than one wife but he was also a naked vegetarian. If you are not also standing up for the naked vegetarian part, I don’t think Adam should be used as an example of what we are “supposed” to be. Because I feel MUCH more comfortable with my clothes on and I enjoy an occasional hamburger lol.
What’s your point about “When Yah made his promise to Abraham, did he have more than one wife?” how does that change anything? When Abraham got wife #2 he had already made a covenant with Yahweh. Was his covenant changed because of Hagar being brought into the mix? No.
If polygyny is a human construct, then why to Yahweh give rules on how a man is to govern himself within that construct?
And as for the “do unto others” clause that you continue to mention, you do not want to acknowledge the fact that Yahweh and sin do not mix. You cannot use this clause in this instance, because the opposite of polygyny is polyandry and that is a sin, under the aforementioned adultery. You can hold on to that if you want to, but the equation does not work itself out. Yahweh is the greatest mathematician in the world; he is the greatest scientist in the world. And both of these things make up our world. Both of these things work on equations and if these equations do not work themselves out then they are plainly and simply incorrect.
July 21, 2009 at 9:24 am
Natassia
Yahweh, at least in the Tanakh, only dwelled in the Temple (and on the tops of mountains)…and women were never allowed to approach the altar, were they?
So, does that mean that all women were sinful?
Come now. Let’s not try to wrap God around a religion.
I know what the Talmud is. I know what the Torah is. I know what the differences are between the two. Never did God say that having multiple wives was NOT a sin. Because humans had multiple wives, you are trying to say that this must mean God allowed it therefore it is not a sin. For one thing, this isn’t logical.
Jesus said Moses allowed the Israelites to divorce because their hearts are hard. I believe that the same reason goes for polygyny. Such a thing is allowed because the hearts of men are hard.
So, we are back to the “law” and deciding if it is what makes us righteous. It doesn’t. Instead, it convicts us of sin. The more laws a person requires, the more evil he or she is.
And this “one flesh” deal…so because a man can become “one flesh” with multiple women, then that must mean that a polygynist is blameless in the eyes of God? I think not. I believe God always designed marriage to be between one man and one woman. That’s how Adam & Eve were. That’s how Noah and his wife were. That’s how Abraham and Sarah were (before Abraham and Sarah lost faith and decided to take matters into their own hands with Hagar).
So, because God’s perfect design was that humans be naked and shameless and vegetarian, then that must mean we don’t have to be that way now? Just because humans can eat meat…it doesn’t mean that it is best. Just because humans can have multiple wives…it doesn’t mean that it is best. So, are we going to settle for the mediocre or are we going to strive for perfect righteousness?
You’re right, God and sin do not mix. And yet humans always sin. Even Aaron sinned, and he was still allowed to approach the most hallowed of areas in the Temple. Why is that? Why is it that Moses, a murderer, was allowed to speak to God? Why is it that David, a murderer and adulterer, still communicated with God?
July 21, 2009 at 11:47 am
dreamgyrl360
**”Yahweh, at least in the Tanakh, only dwelled in the Temple (and on the tops of mountains)…and women were never allowed to approach the altar, were they?
So, does that mean that all women were sinful?
Come now. Let’s not try to wrap God around a religion. ”
~~Wow. So you’re saying that what happened in the Tanakh is “religion” type stuff?
WOW.
Judging from your wording, you find “religion” to be negative, and wrong.
If you believe religion to be wrong, and you are saying that the things prescribed in the Tanakh are “religion” then that means you believe the Tanakh was wrong in it’s prescriptions!
And since the Tanakh is the WORD of God, you believe the WORD of God is wrong!
And since Yahshua the Messiah IS the Living Word of God, Torah in the FLESH, then you believe He’s wrong, too!
WOW.
I know what you’re thinking. “Oh, come on.” But that’s what happens when you say certain things.
Besides, where is your scriptural proof that such a thing happened in the Tanakh? I have never heard of such a situation. From what *I* can see, the only time a woman is forbidden to touch the set apart items in the temple was when she was in a state of uncleanliness.
**I know what the Talmud is. I know what the Torah is. I know what the differences are between the two. Never did God say that having multiple wives was NOT a sin. Because humans had multiple wives, you are trying to say that this must mean God allowed it therefore it is not a sin. For one thing, this isn’t logical.
~~Funny, in the Bible *I* read, what is sin unto Yahweh is clearly marked. If he did not say it was a sin then it is NOT a sin. Period. You can’t add sins where He has not called it sin! You’re starting to write your own doctrine here, I’d tread lightly if I were you.
**Jesus said Moses allowed the Israelites to divorce because their hearts are hard. I believe that the same reason goes for polygyny. Such a thing is allowed because the hearts of men are hard.
~~ “I believe”! YOU may believe it but is it actually there?? NO. This is not about your way or my way, it’s about Yahweh’s way. Once again, writing your own doctrine, and on thin ice, according to scripture.
**So, we are back to the “law” and deciding if it is what makes us righteous. It doesn’t. Instead, it convicts us of sin. The more laws a person requires, the more evil he or she is.
~~If there is no law then there is no sin. the law DEFINES sin for us. If we don’t know the law, we don’t know what is sin. And if we don’t follow the law, then we WILL be sinning. Or else there’s no reason for you to tell me anything towards whether or not polygyny is a sin. With your logic, “sinning” is not in effect because the law is no longer in effect. But we BOTH know that doesn’t make any sense, right?
**And this “one flesh” deal…so because a man can become “one flesh” with multiple women, then that must mean that a polygynist is blameless in the eyes of God? I think not. I believe God always designed marriage to be between one man and one woman. That’s how Adam & Eve were. That’s how Noah and his wife were. That’s how Abraham and Sarah were (before Abraham and Sarah lost faith and decided to take matters into their own hands with Hagar).
~~1.NO ONE BUT YAHSHUA IS BLAMLESS IN THE EYES OF YAH. We are ALL sinners, dear. We ALL have to account for our sins. Scripture does not say a man is sinning for having more than one wife. 2. “I believe” here we go again. 3. Adam and Eve. HERE WE GO AGAIN! lol 4. Yes Noah was like that. But Israel was not like that. And he is the father of the 12 Tribes! And neither was King David like that, and in scripture Yahweh tells him that HE gave him those wives!! WHY would Yahweh give someone something that was sinful? 4.Whether or not Abe and Sarah lost faith does not make taking a second wife a sin.
**So, because God’s perfect design was that humans be naked and shameless and vegetarian, then that must mean we don’t have to be that way now? Just because humans can eat meat…it doesn’t mean that it is best. Just because humans can have multiple wives…it doesn’t mean that it is best. So, are we going to settle for the mediocre or are we going to strive for perfect righteousness?
~~Well then I suppose you’ll be at the nudist colony soon, and I suppose you’re going to cut out the meat eating then. If you don’t, I’ll certainly believe that you aren’t striving for perfect righteousness. There’s a reason we wear clothes and there’s a reason Yah says we can eat meat. There’s a reason why Yahweh didn’t specify polygyny as a sin, he in fact gave laws on it. Why would he give laws on something he thought of as sinful.
**You’re right, God and sin do not mix. And yet humans always sin. Even Aaron sinned, and he was still allowed to approach the most hallowed of areas in the Temple. Why is that?
~~Remember that the priests had to immerse themselves in order to be in a higher state of cleaniness; it’s in scripture. Repeatedly.
**Why is it that Moses, a murderer, was allowed to speak to God? Why is it that David, a murderer and adulterer, still communicated with God?
~~These are odd to me. What do you want me to glean from these last questions? I don’t get them; I don’t understand how they have anything to do with any of this. BOTH of the men you mention here are polygynists; what’s your point? Neither of them were admonished for having other wives — Moses only had two but David had TONS of wives; so did Solomon. The amount of other wives was not the problem; the problem was the fact that David AND Solomon had foreign wives, wives who caused them to stray from Yahweh. Had all of their wives been Hebrew, there would not have been any issue. And David killed Bathsheba’s husband and then took her as a wife, that was wrong and wicked and lustful on his part. But their polygynous ways were not the problem.
Yahshua gives a parable about 10 brides and one bridegroom. When the groom returned he found only 5 wives ready to marry him and so he took those 5 wives in and married them. Not ONE, but five. Even tho it’s just a story, why would Yahshua describe his actions towards us in a sinful act? If polygyny is a sin why would he use it?
July 21, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Natassia
I have a serious issue with people declaring that something is the “Word of God” without adequate proof. If you are declaring that the Tanakh is the “Word of God” then I would hope you have some pretty good answers for all the contradictions and barbarisms in it.
The Torah never declared divorce to be a “sin” and yet in the book of Malachi, it is recorded that God hates divorce.
Why would God hate something if it was not a sin? Based on the teachings of Jesus and his followers as recorded in the New Testament scriptures, polygyny is not a righteous act. It is a HUMAN CONSTRUCT that humans attempt to moralize by saying that God allowed it, therefore it must not be a sin.
Slave trading is a sin (at least according to the New Testament scriptures) and yet the Torah specifically allows it. I am not one to try and reconcile obvious contradictions in an attempt to prove a preconceived notion. It is a preconceived notion that the Tanakh is the Word of God. And nowhere do the scriptures demand that I believe such a thing.
I find a religion that causes people to go against their conscience to be a negative thing. If a religion requires that I believe polygyny to not be a sin, and yet my conscience, my heart, and my logic all tell me that it is wrong…then yes, it is a negative thing. If I am convicted by the Holy Spirit as the scriptures themselves promised I would be, then perhaps you can explain why such a conviction is laid upon my heart.
Tell me, was a woman ever allowed to be a high priest? Was a woman ever permitted to do what Aaron and his descendents were commanded to do by God? Were they allowed to eat of the meal offerings and the guilt offerings (as described in Leviticus 6 & 7)? No, they weren’t.
The law defines sin…but it is not necessary in order to know sin. What about the people who have never heard of the Ten Commandments? Do you think it not possible for the Holy Spirit to convict them of sin anyway? It sounds like you are making the Torah to be the only thing on this planet that defines what Good and Evil are when such judgment only comes from God. Tell me, rape of a concubine or wife is not a sin in the Torah…God never says it is a sin for a man to force sexual relations upon his wives or women who are his “sexual property.”
So, is rape a sin? I only see in the Torah that rape of another man’s woman is a sin…not rape of a captive or a man’s own wife.
By the way, Noah was described as “blameless” in the Torah. Care to explain that contradiction if ONLY Yahweh is blameless? The Torah demands that people be blameless before the Lord. How is that supposed to work if such a feat is impossible?
Is enslavement of noncombatant women and children a sin or not? Is the buying and selling of unwilling human beings a sin or not? Is rape a sin or not? Doesn’t the Torah demand that a man marry his rape victim if she was not betrothed already? So, in that case, is God declaring rape to not be a sin because He has provided laws about it?
Was Moses a polygynist? I never saw evidence of such a thing. My questions were about Moses and David. You claim that God and sin do not mix…and yet He communicated with some extremely sinful people: both of them murderers and one of them an adulterer on top of it.
July 21, 2009 at 11:56 pm
dreamgyrl360
So… what you’re saying is, you believe 100% in the NEW TESTAMENT, and not in the OLD TESTAMENT?
That’s like watching a sequel and never seeing the first movie —
And thinking you have the whole story.
I LOVE your questions!! Wow aren’t you a smart girl? And, wouldn’t you know, I most likely have an answer to each and every one!
Why am I up so late tonight? (I know that’s not one of your questions but I’ll tell you) Two of my three children have chicken pox and we’re going to be going out of town at 4am Thursday morning. Travelling all the way up to Good Ole Brooklyn “Tha Brick” New York! I’m nervous. I ate beef and I shouldn’t have. It’s too much for lil ole me, lol. So, I’m drinking some vinegar tea. An acquired taste I’m sure. But I love it, and it loves me.
Once I finish it, once I am calm I will go to sleep —
But I come on here to check my emails and you’ve left all these positively GREAT questions to answer!!
Now I’ll be up til 1am. YOUR FAULT lol.
You’ll probably be insulted but I have to say it anyway for the sake of my blog — ARE YOU MARRIED?
You’re so smart, you’re such a debater. You’d be PERFECT for us, NONE of us would ever get any sleep or any work done because we could debate back and forth like this forever lol.
If you’re not married — if you EVER feel differently about the polygyny thing — if you fit what I’m pretty sure is my husband’s description of attractive — akhoti (Hebrew for sister), let me know!
*ahem*
Okay.
BACK to the situation at hand here — YOU believe in a section of scripture that is BASED off another section of scripture that you have reason to believe is NOT the infallible Word of The Living God of the Hebrews, Yahweh El Shaddai, Eloheinu.
WHERE is it based in the NT Scriptures that polygyny is not a righteous act? Where do you get that from? I don’t see it; the Messiah says he’s to marry EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US, and we are ALL supposed to be ONE. Sounds like polygyny is a model for what’s going to go on in New Jerusalem, to me!
As for why there aren’t female high priest, your NT scriptures tell you what the proper order is — Yahweh is the head of Yahshua, Yahshua is the head of man, and man is the head of woman. That is the MAN’s job to be priests, not ours! Of course each and every one of us is responsible in fostering a personal relationship with the Most High. So, if you are alone you are welcome to priest for yourself if you must. And if you’re not alone, if your husband or father allows it you can priest for yourself. But otherwise that is a male job. Period. While there are 613 laws alot of them are kept by default because not every law is for each and every body and the laws of the priesthood are not for women to keep. We have our own laws we’re supposed to keep. We should worry more about what we’re doing and not doing.
If you are NOT convicted by the holy spirit on this thing, then why are you over here conversing with me? Something’s tingling off inside that brain of yours. The only time the law will be placed upon our hearts (you quoted it a while back, not me!) is when man is not shouting “Know Yah!” and is not teaching his brethren about Yah. BOTH of these things are still happening so we’re not quite there yet. We still need the law to show us what is sin and what is not sin. We are down here in this wicked flesh that tells us that it’s OKAY when a man cheats or fathers a child that he has no intentions of being a father to. We’ll allow THAT to not be against our law but when a man says “I want to take responsibility for my actions!” and marry more than one woman to make a righteous woman out of her, oh, CLEARLY HE is the sinner here! We’d rather a woman be a mistress, an adultress and a slut but when a woman is okay with being wife number 2 3 or 4 obviously SHE is the evil harlot that was warned about in scripture.
YOU believe the way you do because of the backward society we live in. Your argument (tho better, and more intriguing I must say) is no different from anyone else’s that I’ve come across. I too felt the SAME WAY at the beginning of this journey. But when I read more and when I understood the basis of scripture more (OT and NT have the SAME basis which is HEBREW not JEWISH), I became not only accepting of polygyny but one who could see the NEED of a second wife in her own house. NOW it makes sense. Not then; it cudda NEVER made sense to me then, not no way not no how lol.
But now — it’s all clear. It’s all clear that that BIBLE, is saying the same thing over and over again. The Torah is repeated in the prophets; it’s repeated in the Gospel, and it’s repeated in Paul. NONE of it contradicts. Only our understanding of scripture contradicts. Only the nonsense we’ve been taught in these churches and in this society make it contradict.
As for rape, RAPE is a sin because a man must make some sort of amends for his action. He’s either got to pay for her, or he’s got to marry her. Either way he’s got to make an honest woman out of her. So it’s a sin.
Slavery, well, unfortunately for your argument, I have to say it’s not a sin. Once again, something The Most High gave rules for. He also said in the year of Jubilee, slaves had to be freed.
Most of Yahweh’s idea of slavery was COMPLETELY different than what went on here in America. So I am not as bitter towards it.
You got me on the blameless thing. When you said blameless I thought we were being simple with the meaning — meaning “without sin”. And when I said only one is blameless, I meant “Without Sin” and I said YAHSHUA , not YAHWEH. Two different people. One is God. The other is His Son. The way to be blameless before Yahweh is to repent. We are in a CONSTANT state of repentance. We must ALWAYS repent for all the many sins we commit every day of our lives. To sin means to miss the mark. If you miss it, you just aim and try for it again. And again. And again… until you get it right.
I “claim” that God and sin do not mix? So are you saying that God and sin DO mix? Because if so that’s against scripture.
And anyway I never saud that God can’t talk to whomever he deems worthy. He can talk to who HE wants. That’s got nothing to do with where God dwells and where sin dwells. He’s talking to that person he’s not dwelling with that person.
Moses was a polygynist. Check scripture, check the Hebrew, check the commentary. He had Tzipporah, who was from Midian and he had an Ethiopian wife. Ethiopia and Midian are not in the same places!!
Shalom and good night! I’ve finished my cup, I’ve put my 2 y/o in the bed for the 4th and LAST time, my 5 y/o in bed for the 2nd and last time, and my baby is still asleep…
I don’t think I’ve acknowledged all of your queries and for that I’m sorry but it’s 12:55a and I have to get the car serviced at 8:30a. You see why I need a second wife?? We’re BUSY around here; hubby is up and to work at 6:30a and won’t be home til round 6:30p. Then he’ll want to spend time with us, AND work on the house…
July 22, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Natassia
I feel like a broken record.
“Do unto others as you would have done to you.”
If a man would not want his wife to take a second husband, then a man should not take a second wife.
“Love your neighbor as yourself.”
If a man loves his wife as he loves himself, he would not do anything that could possibly cause her emotional anguish…such as making himself ONE FLESH with another woman.
So simple. Why do we run from these commands?
Anything that contradicts these commands is wrong. I don’t care if you find something in the scriptures or something in real life. I would never want someone to slaughter my children, therefore I would not slaughter children. I would never want someone to be held accountable for my evil deeds, therefore I would not hold anyone accountable for evil deeds they did not commit.
You wrote: As for rape, RAPE is a sin because a man must make some sort of amends for his action. He’s either got to pay for her, or he’s got to marry her. Either way he’s got to make an honest woman out of her. So it’s a sin.
That doesn’t really make sense. Can an animal sin? No. And yet it is killed if it kills someone or if someone has sex with it. A man is not held accountable for beating his slave to a pulp because a slave is his property. A man is not held accountable for raping his concubines or wives.
The only time rape is a “sin” is when a woman belongs to another man: either her betrothed/husband or her father. At that point, a price is paid to the FATHER and the woman is married, or the man is put to death in the case of a betrothed woman because she belonged to another man.
In other words, according to the Torah, a woman is simply property: either the property of her male relatives or the property of her husband.
This is contrary to the New Testament. So something must be wrong. Either the Torah’s message that women are the property of men is wrong or the New Testament’s message that there is neither male or female in Christ is wrong.
Do I believe 100% in the New Testament and 0% in the Old? No. That’s not how my brain works. I look at both sets of writings for what they are: ancient documents describing man’s interactions with and interpretations of God as well as the history of a group of people: the Israelites.
To constantly repent over and over again means that you don’t truly believe in the forgiveness bestowed upon man thanks to Christ. It’s called being born anew. Christ did not preach that one must repent and be born anew with every single sin. That’s enough to drive someone insane.
Jesus promised the indwelling of the Holy Spirit WITHIN his followers. If the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, then how can it dwell within sinners? What is that? How could the Holy Spirit inspire sinful prophets to prophesy? We are all sinful, and yet the New Testament teaches that our bodies are temples for the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and guides us in paths of righteousness.
To say that polygyny can’t be a sin because the Torah doesn’t say it is simply doesn’t make sense. At that point I can argue: rape of Gentile captives is not a sin; rape of one’s concubine is not a sin; rape of one’s wife is not a sin; slave trading is not a sin; killing Gentile babies is not a sin (since that was a direct command from God, was it not?); beating one’s slave is not a sin, etc.
September 9, 2009 at 12:41 pm
dreamgyrl360
I’m sorry let me officially end this argument. I stopped because I just didn’t have it in me to continue at the time.
Natassia we cannot argue because we are not on the same basis of belief and understanding.
You see, I understand the entire Bible to be the infallible Word of The Living God, Yahweh. 100% of it.
I don’t take what I understand and leave what I do not understand. His Ways are not my ways and I dont expect them to be. While I may question man’s translation of scripture I will NOT question The Living God Himself about why He made things the way He did. I agree with the Old Testament scripture of everything being given to us knowledge wise over time (…”but the secret things belong to YHWH”). The things that I do not yet understand with my limited, human mind, I know it will be revealed over time.
Meanwhile, I pray that Yahweh sends you wisdom and understanding, and opens up your mind to HIS truth. I pray that He sets you free from the burdens this backward society has put on your mind and heart. I pray that you lean not to your OWN understanding but to Yahweh’s. In the name of His Son, Yahoshua the Messiah, Amen and Amen, HalleluYahweh.
I have a new video to post. PEACE for now!
February 24, 2011 at 9:32 pm
Ayana
I just have one question I’m an unmarried women with out children, well my question is if I’m this way now when the kingdom is established here on earth if I’m not married by that time will I ever be allowed to get married and have children?
March 25, 2011 at 9:16 am
Rebecca
THAT I cannot give you the answer to, akhotee/sister. That’s beyond my specialty; you should consult an Elder/moreh.
I didn’t write this post and I suppose I should have said that. In fact, I thought I did. I am LOOKING for the person who wrote it to give them props on their research.
Do you WANT to be married? Are you feeling that you are unable to find someone to marry? Are you Hebrew? Are you in a congregation?
Seek out your elders. I’m sure if you want to be married a courtship could be arranged for you.
Sorry so late I don’t know why I didn’t see this comment.
January 23, 2016 at 11:56 am
Kendra Daniels
Well done! My husband and I just finished a research paper on polygyny. Would you like to read it? We covered a few passages that you didn’t mention.
February 1, 2016 at 6:32 am
Dr3@MGYRL360
I would love to read it! 😀
Send it to me on facebook in my dreamgyrl360 inbox!! ❤ thank you again and blessings!
June 19, 2016 at 1:43 am
Dale
Your understanding is outstanding! I live in tha brick – Brooklyn (grew up in Jamaica a little over 20yrs, spent about 14 in CT, then 9 in Harlem, now a year in BK – love it :)) God Bless. Shalom!
July 29, 2017 at 7:50 pm
Eudora Nachand
Thank you so much. I truly enjoyed reading the scriptures that you shared. It help me so much to see them in the context relating to the subject at hand. I hope that makes sense to you. When I read His instructions, I soak them in. But reading them using just the marriage as a subject lesson, it begins to make so much more sense. It seems to me to also point out the relationship between not only a man and a woman but our relationship with-in the covenantal one with Abba.
December 17, 2017 at 9:57 am
Dr3@MGYRL360
You’re absolutely right! Shalom!
August 15, 2017 at 3:59 am
anonymous
Firstly, I think it is wonderful that you are trying to honor Yehovah and obey all His ways.
Secondly, having access to Strong’s does not mean you know Greek. The word used in reference to deacon’s having one wife is not the word “Mia” as shown in Strongs. Strongs often uses ROOTS of the words and not SPECIFIC word itself.
The SPECIFIC word for “one” in the Greek text is “μιᾶς” or Mias. That specific word is indeed one… not first.
http://biblehub.com/greek/mias_1520.htm
It is also used in reference to Esau trading his birthright for “one” meal. Sarcastically, I think that was his “first” meal his whole life then it would be worth trading a birthright for. No the word means one, not first.
December 17, 2017 at 9:56 am
Dr3@MGYRL360
Respectfully — It doesn’t matter if I “know” Greek. Do you “know” Greek? In the reference of Esau, we must look at context, because the word mia can mean single as well. But other times it means first, as in first day of the week.
I behoove you to check out this link: http://www.truthbearer.org/doctrine/past-one-wife-barrier/
There’s two chapters to read there.
ALSO, watch this video:
Blessings!